Just bought a IIIa and have a question

[garryleica]

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I have just bought a 1939 IIIa with a red dial triangle Elmar from ebay, and have a question about it.

When setting the shutter speed, the dial sits back down onto the plate for each speed, apart from when I set 1/1000.  It locks the rotation of the dial, but doesn't sit back down.

As far as I can tell the camera fires at the correct speed, so is this normal behaviour, or a symptom of something I should keep an eye on?

Thanks.

Garry

 

[pedaes]

Just now, garryleica said:

When setting the shutter speed

You know you set the speed only with the shutter cocked (film wound-on)?

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[jerzy]

This is normal, function as designed 

[garryleica]

34 minutes ago, pedaes said:

You know you set the speed only with the shutter cocked (film wound-on)?

Yes, I've trained myself to do just that.  Forgot a couple of times when trying the slow speed dial though.

[garryleica]

36 minutes ago, jerzy said:

This is normal, function as designed 

Strange if it's not supposed to sit back down for 1/1000, wonder why that is?

[Anbaric]

.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Anbaric

[Anbaric]

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59 minutes ago, garryleica said:

Strange if it's not supposed to sit back down for 1/1000, wonder why that is?

It's to test you've read the manual, where this quirk is mentioned briefly 🙂.

Joking aside, it is a good idea to have a look at the instructions if you haven't already. The IIIa manual is here:

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_iiia/leica_iiia.htm

The IIIf manual is a bit clearer, despite the minor differences between the cameras:

https://www.butkus.org/chinon/leica/leica_if_iif_iiif/leica_if_iif_iiif.htm

It has a particularly good explanation of how the film should be loaded on p27-32, and a picture of the profile the film leader should be trimmed to with scissors or a cutting template (or the mechanism may jam).

I don't know the technical explanation for the difference in the 1/1000 speed, but someone here may. The earlier Leicas only go to 1/500, so it's probably something to do with adding an additional speed to the original design.

[spydrxx]

When I noticed this on my first Japanese Leica Barnack homage camera, a Leotax, I thought it was odd, but discovered that several cameras of this era shared this oddity, as well as some which had a top (marked) shutter speed of 1/500 but the speed selection dial could be further rotated to an unmarked spot which delivered 1/1000 sec. So I'd agree it isn't all that unusual in older bodies. Probably has to do with some engaging or disengaging of a gear only needed for 1/1000 sec. which wasn't anticipated in the original design, but was an afterthought, and the mfr didn't want to go thru the hassle of declaring a new version.

[jerzy]

it is because all of them share similar shutter construction. Here some internals - this is how it looks under the top cover of IIIa. Locking pawl holds and releases the second, closing curtain thus determines the speed. Locking pawl has additinal bolt (green) for 1/1000, all other speeds are released when part P touched the placed marked with orange arrow. Observe as well differnet diameter of holes on speed disc, this thes where the part P (to which speed dial is attached). Hole for 1/1000 is smaller, part P (and thus speed dial) sits higher

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Edited June 25, 2022 by jerzy
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[garryleica]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

I did download the manual, but haven't looked at it yet.  I thought I knew all about the IIIa after watching every video I could find on youtube, but no-one mentioned this feature.

I've practiced loading it a few times with a scrap film trimmed down, and found it quite easy to load.

The only problem I had was the sprocket holes in the film being visible in the picture area.  I worked out that the film cassette must be a bit low in the chamber.  I think I've fixed it now by placing a small circle of thin leather into the inside of the baseplate latch where the cassette sits on it.

[garryleica]

10 minutes ago, jerzy said:

it is because all of them share similar shutter construction. Here some internals - this is how it looks under the top cover of IIIa. Locking pawl holds and releases the second, closing curtain thus determines the speed. Locking pawl has additinal bolt (green) for 1/1000, all other speeds are released when part P touched the placed marked with orange arrow. Observe as well differnet diameter of holes on speed disc, this thes where the part P (to which speed dial is attached). Hole for 1/1000 is smaller, part P (and thus speed dial) sits higher

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Thanks for putting that up.  I can see if they'd used the same size hole, it would overlap into the one next to it.

Pretty sure my dad used to have a Leica repair book when I was a kid.  I'll ask if he still has it, might come in useful.