Taming Blown Highlights

[erniethemilk]

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Any tips for taming highlights.

Summer has turned up here and the highlights on the M10 soon blow out.  It’s the one area of M10 ownership I’ve yet to tame fully without drastically under exposing which makes the image a little too dark at times even in post. 
 

[overexposed]

not much to say other than to proper expose, otherwise as you said, underexpose then push the shadows

there is no magic spell unfortunately

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[Adam Bonn]

Don't use ISO100 (use 200 as base)

Even if you underexpose at 100 it still seems (to my eye at least) to often mess up with the highlight roll off by compressing them due to the pull nature of 100

edit:

a decent ND filter can help too

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by Adam Bonn

[tiwafluet]

In lightroom I had good results in restoring highlights using a linear profile made by Tony Kuyper.

[lct]

Do the opposite to what you've been reading here and there  i.e. do not expose "to the right". Expose on a bright instead of a dark part of the frame. Not the brightest to avoid massive under exposure but bright enough. Matter of practice, you'll just have to push some shadows in PP if needed. FWIW.

[erniethemilk]

Thanks for the replies, pretty much all of which I tend to do at the moment... I guess it's a matter of confidence and thinking a bit more before I press the shutter.

Using other cameras with matrix metering and such like makes the process a bit lazier - but for me nothing beats the output from the Leica!

[Jeff S]

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Jono switched to the M10R for his needs…

Jeff

[Adam Bonn]

2 minutes ago, erniethemilk said:

Thanks for the replies, pretty much all of which I tend to do at the moment... I guess it's a matter of confidence and thinking a bit more before I press the shutter.

Using other cameras with matrix metering and such like makes the process a bit lazier - but for me nothing beats the output from the Leica!

when I'm not sure about an exposure and have time I snap an image then check the LCD preview.

The histogram and the 'blinkies' are fairly conservative... some times it says it's clipped and it hasn't (there's perhaps 1/2 a stop extra in the DNG from what the camera tells me is clipped...) but the challenge is that the preview can only 'say' clipped - not clipped by 2/3 stop or clipped by 3 stops. It's a binary yes/no help guide to exposure

So when in doubt I work the other way... as LCT says above, if the image review says no where near clipped, then it really isn't and I'll crank it up a bit.

I'm sorry I can't be more scientific with with this next bit... 

...but IRL I tend to wave the camera around the scene noting the A priority mode suggested SS, then use experience to decide which is most likely to be 'true' (sic) - if it oscillates between (say) 1/250 and 1/2000, then chances are neither of those choices are that great..

Once I snap, I check the preview (looking at the histogram) then adjust the exposure manually as needed, or keep it on A priority and just point the camera at somewhere else in the scene to generate the desired SS

FWIW quite often if the camera suggests (say) 1/2000 @ F2, I might keep the SS locked with a half press and shoot another at F2.4 &/or 2.8, just for a bit of contingency as this is super quick to do and your hand is already in the right place and you don't have to take your eye away from the VF, (slightly deeper focus doesn't hurt either)

[Adam Bonn]

13 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Jono switched to the M10R for his needs…

by all accounts the 10R has more highlight exposure latitude (and the M11 more again?), but I would imagine that it's still physically possibly to clip data so the challenge of reading the scene and exposing acceptably remains. 

As a nautical metaphor (to go with Jono's picture) the 10R has a better lifeboat but still best not to sink the ship in the first place

[Jeff S]

11 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

by all accounts the 10R has more highlight exposure latitude (and the M11 more again?), but I would imagine that it's still physically possibly to clip data so the challenge of reading the scene and exposing acceptably remains. 

As a nautical metaphor (to go with Jono's picture) the 10R has a better lifeboat but still best not to sink the ship in the first place

No need IMO to repeat the discussion points  in that thread.  Just wanted to offer a possible approach, at least for one person.

Jeff

[SrMi]

There are two questions in OP, I presume:

• how to prevent blown highlights
• how to recover blown highlights.

To prevent blown highlights, use the camera's histogram and blinkies in LV or image review. You can play it safe, or you can optimize IQ by bracketing. Getting more experience with your camera helps a lot.

Do not rely on Lightroom or PS histograms to determine whether you have blown highlights. Only tools like Rawdigger can tell you that, though you can notice it in Lightroom when highlight recovery produces strange results (lack of details, weird colors). Lightroom can recover a blown channel for a bit and for a bit more by losing some texture and color. More can be done in PS using cloning.

[Herr Barnack]

To prevent blown out highlights, try getting into your menu and setting exposure compensation to -1EV up to -2EV, then lift up your shadow areas in post processing. 

You can also shoot in manual mode - get your correct meter reading, then underexpose by -1EV to -2EV, then lift up your shadow areas in post processing.

Experiment with these methods to see what works best for a given scene and subject matter.

 

[SrMi]

17 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

To prevent blown out highlights, try getting into your menu and setting exposure compensation to -1EV up to -2EV, then lift up your shadow areas in post processing. 

You can also shoot in manual mode - get your correct meter reading, then underexpose by -1EV to -2EV, then lift up your shadow areas in post processing.

Experiment with these methods to see what works best for a given scene and subject matter.

 

That strategy looks wasteful to me, though it can prevent highlights from being blown in certain situations.
What do you mean by "correct meter reading"?

[NigelG]

To be contrary maybe - in this new digital world where everything must be done to extend the dynamic range of a captured  image - if you're underexposing enough to protect the highlights that the shadows can't be recovered then maybe you need to consider which is more important to the image...

Everyone seems to eternally bang on about "protecting the highlights" on the basis that shadow detail is always recoverable in post and setting negative default exposure metering is a given, because once highlights are blown (in all colour channels) there's no way back.

My personal feeling (standing maybe as a "tall poppy") is that I will happily blow out the highlights to preserve shadow detail. Alternatively if the highlights are important I'll block the shadows if need be. My point being that you need to decide on the importance of the highlight detail regardless of the "protect the highlights at all costs" mantra.

To me this is more in tune with what my eyes see and my memories of a scene. If its blindingly bright, or there are glittering highlights etc I'll let them blow. They do in my head. 

I know my eyes have a greater dynamic range than the sensor - but what I "see" (without sunglasses) and  I "remember" is a glare-y/highlight/de-saturated reality.

When I studied architecture back in the day we had a geodesic dome with an "artificial sky" so we could look at the effects of sun position/intensity/latitude/elevation etc on our modelled designs - I guess it's now just a mouse click away in an app .

The big takeaway was learning how our brain automatically compensates the input from our eyes both to even-out the varied brightness of the sky from horizon to apex but also ditto for colours. If you look through a low window at a landscape with no sky component the colours will appear much more saturated. They're obviously the same colours - the plants/trees/grasses didn't change - but the way your brain processed the information of the colours did.  

Martin Parr might 'pop' his beach colours for effect  but in my head they're de-saturated as I'm blinking from the glare...

 

[adan]

Expose for the highlights - expose for the highlights - expose for the highlights!

Then "tame" the shadows.

The M10 has enormous extra DR in the shadows. Most of the reviewers remarked on it in 2017.

Leica hid that with a contrasty tone curve to get back some of the punch and saturation of the M9 CCD, straight out of the camera.

But it is easy to counteract with the exposure/shadows/contrast/blacks sliders. Don't be afraid to push the shadows to +100 if needed - the M10 also has very good chroma/color invariance (hues stay the same even when "pushed" or opened up 2-4 stops).

Here's an example from my first summer with the M10 (2017), once I figured out what was going on. What came out of the camera - and then what was really there. Image shot at minus -0.7 Exposure comp. Nothing is blown except a couple of pin-point specular reflections of the sun in the man's water-bottle and watch bezel.

It may even look overcooked and  "too HDR" to some - it does to me - but I'm just showing how much is available in the M10 shadow data. You only have to use as much as you want.

A little bump to the mid-tone contrast with curves can tame the HDR appearance.

Straight from the camera (90mm Summarit f/2.5):

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"Tamed"/recovered shadows.

 

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by adan

[adan]

1 hour ago, NigelG said:

My personal feeling (standing maybe as a "tall poppy") is that I will happily blow out the highlights to preserve shadow detail.

Sure - people tend to get afraid of "paper white" and "negative space" - while ignoring its power in all other visual art forms. Consider Sumi e paintings, or Avedon's portraits (on film, no less):

https://inkgangboss.com/how-to-create-a-beautiful-sumi-e-painting-in-procreate/

https://www.nyfa.edu/student-resources/white-background/

The key is having the "knowing" to control one's art and get whatever look one wants, when one wants it.

Jennifer drawing, M10, 75 APO-Summicron

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Edited June 22, 2022 by adan

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, adan said:

Expose for the highlights - expose for the highlights - expose for the highlights!

Then "tame" the shadows.

The M10 has enormous extra DR in the shadows. Most of the reviewers remarked on it in 2017.

The M10 has a lot of DR at low ISO but, like any other camera, not so much at high ISO.
At high ISO (>=1600?), it makes sense to "underexpose" one or two stops by reducing ISO, but not by reducing the exposure!
On the other hand, OP is talking about summer daylight shooting, so low ISO is likely being used.

[adan]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

At high ISO (>=1600?), it makes sense to "underexpose" one or two stops by reducing ISO, but not by reducing the exposure!

The only way to avoid blown highlights is to reduce the exposure (the number of photons hitting each pixel) to the point that no pixels are overloaded. Regardless of ISO.

That is inescapable physics.

Explain in more detail how one "shoots at ISO 1600," yet reduces the ISO to 'not 1600'.

[SrMi]

50 minutes ago, adan said:

The only way to avoid blown highlights is to reduce the exposure (the number of photons hitting each pixel) to the point that no pixels are overloaded. Regardless of ISO.

That is inescapable physics.

Explain in more detail how one "shoots at ISO 1600," yet reduces the ISO to 'not 1600'.

Let's say the metering gives you ISO 1600, f/5.6, 1/250 sec. 
Let's say you want to preserve highlights by reducing exposure by one stop and shoot with 1/500 sec instead. Unfortunately, that is a bad idea, since it also increases noise. 
A better approach is to shoot at ISO 800 instead of ISO 1600 (f/5.6, 1/250 sec). The noise in the image, which is determined by the exposure (not ISO), stays the same. However, the image needs to be lifted by one stop in the post. 
This works better with raw images than with JPGs, though.

Edited June 22, 2022 by SrMi

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[lct]

Blown highlights can be avoided by reducing iso values w/o changing aperture or shutter speeds (Fuji X-E2, Summarit 50/2.5, 1/125s, f/2.8, 3200 & 1250 iso).

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