M11 Vignette ?

[pascallienard]

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No, no @hdmesa both cameras have the lens detection set on auto on camera, and so they should be corrected. I will take a bunch of exposure with both set to off - as suggested by @lct - (by the way, this is the very same lens)

 

[hmzimelka]

20 minutes ago, pascallienard said:

No, no @hdmesa both cameras have the lens detection set on auto on camera, and so they should be corrected. I will take a bunch of exposure with both set to off - as suggested by @lct - (by the way, this is the very same lens)

 

I agree the comparison can only be done with lens coding set to off on both cameras if the objective is to determine whether the M11 vignettes more than another camera. Otherwise the comparison may just be showing differences in vignette and/or shading correction, or whether there is an issue/bug with the M11.

I would also use a controlled lighting source to evenly illuminate your subject, mount the camera on the tripod and change only the lenses. Make sure both lenses are set to infinity.

Edited June 22, 2022 by hmzimelka

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[pascallienard]

Here it is (I desaturated to keep our eye away of the color casts).

Interestingly, with lens detection set to off, both cameras are very close.
With lens correction set to auto, the M9 seems to apply way more correction.

M9 lens detect OFF
M11 les detect OFF

M9, ON
M11, ON

At 1.4 OFF and ON
At 5.6 OFF and ON
 

 

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Edited June 22, 2022 by pascallienard

[lct]

20 minutes ago, pascallienard said:

with lens detection set to off, both cameras are very close

Somewhat expectedly .

[hmzimelka]

Now the question begs if this lens correction is the intended behaviour for the M11.

[pascallienard]

Absolutely - Is this very light (almost none) lens correction a deliberate choice for the M11, or is this my very own camera ?
(Or it might come later with a new firmware)
(PS : same results with my 50 'lux)

Would any of you give it a quick try ? 

[SrMi]

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Generally, I do not prefer mandatory vignetting correction that is baked in the raw (increases noise in the corners). Instead, I like M11's behavior.

[pascallienard]

7 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Generally, I do not prefer mandatory vignetting correction that is baked in the raw (increases noise in the corners). Instead, I like M11's behavior.

I have to agree : M9 looks overcorrected in comparaison - but only if it's normal/intended choice/behavior

[Jared]

One other thing to be aware of. Until a week or so ago, Lightroom and Camera Raw were not actually applying the lens correction on many M11/lens combinations even if the profile was correctly chosen, either by the auto detection or manually. Make sure you have the latest version of Camera Raw and Lightroom if you are comparing results with corrections applied. The versions up until a few weeks ago weren’t working for whatever reason. 

[SrMi]

12 minutes ago, Jared said:

One other thing to be aware of. Until a week or so ago, Lightroom and Camera Raw were not actually applying the lens correction on many M11/lens combinations even if the profile was correctly chosen, either by the auto detection or manually. Make sure you have the latest version of Camera Raw and Lightroom if you are comparing results with corrections applied. The versions up until a few weeks ago weren’t working for whatever reason. 

Good point, however I did not see much difference in vignetting with lens correction turned on or off.

[Jared]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Good point, however I did not see much difference in vignetting with lens correction turned on or off.

Right. That was the problem till the last update. Off/on produced the same result with many lenses (though not all)—no vignetting correction and no distortion correction. That is no longer the case. Newest version of Lightroom Classic should show a much bigger difference between on and off.

I don’t happen to own the 28 Lux so I can’t test it, but it now works for other lenses I own and it wasn’t working till the latest version. 

[pascallienard]

16 minutes ago, Jared said:

One other thing to be aware of. Until a week or so ago, Lightroom and Camera Raw were not actually applying the lens correction on many M11/lens combinations even if the profile was correctly chosen, either by the auto detection or manually. Make sure you have the latest version of Camera Raw and Lightroom if you are comparing results with corrections applied. The versions up until a few weeks ago weren’t working for whatever reason. 

Yes @Jared, indeed, but it's more of an in body behavior rather than software pp.
(+ it would make sense that LR cannot apply an auto vignette compensation on M lenses because the aperture is only a guess.)
(I do use last LR, and I did a quick try yesterday with C1, same, almost).

Question is, is it a deliberate choice for all M11. 

[SrMi]

1 minute ago, Jared said:

Right. That was the problem till the last update. Off/on produced the same result with many lenses (though not all)—no vignetting correction and no distortion correction. That is no longer the case. Newest version of Lightroom Classic should show a much bigger difference between on and off.

I don’t happen to own the 28 Lux so I can’t test it, but it now works for other lenses I own and it wasn’t working till the latest version. 

As I implied, I have 28 Lux. I tested it with M11 and the latest Adobe update that allows lens correction to be turned on/off. I cannot see any difference in vignetting after turning on the lens correction.

[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, pascallienard said:

Yes @Jared, indeed, but it's more of an in body behavior rather than software pp.
(+ it would make sense that LR cannot apply an auto vignette compensation on M lenses because the aperture is only a guess.)
(I do use last LR, and I did a quick try yesterday with C1, same, almost).

Question is, is it a deliberate choice for all M11. 

I wonder at what point was the in-camera vignetting reduced/eliminated? M240, M10, M11?

Edited June 22, 2022 by SrMi

[hdmesa]

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

As I implied, I have 28 Lux. I tested it with M11 and the latest Adobe update that allows lens correction to be turned on/off. I cannot see any difference in vignetting after turning on the lens correction.

Are you still seeing a grayed-out vignette slider in Lightroom Classic after the update? It's so frustrating that I can't apply vignette correction to M lenses in Lightroom. The separate Vignette panel only adds vignette, be it dark or white; it does not remove vignette.

[hdmesa]

6 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I wonder at what point was the in-camera vignetting reduced/eliminated? M240, M10, M11?

If they did, Lightroom is not allowing it to be adjusted like distortion correction. I don't think Leica is writing vignette correction data to the DNGs at all on the M11. Conversely, the SL2-S hard-bakes the vignette correction into the DNG – it's unremovable by any DNG editing hack. Leica really needs to get their firmware teams on the same page with regard to lens corrections.

Edited June 22, 2022 by hdmesa

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Are you still seeing a grayed-out vignette slider in Lightroom Classic after the update? It's so frustrating that I can't apply vignette correction to M lenses in Lightroom. The separate Vignette panel only adds vignette, be it dark or white; it does not remove vignette.

Yes, the vignette slider is still grayed out (also on M10-R, OM-1, and some other cameras). In addition, there is a post-crop vignetting slider (Effects panel) that sometimes may or may not help.
I feel that vignetting is part of the character of the 28 Lux.

[hdmesa]

Just now, SrMi said:

Yes, the vignette slider is still grayed out (also on M10-R, OM-1, and some other cameras). In addition, there is a post-crop vignetting slider (Effects panel) that sometimes may or may not help.
I feel that vignetting is part of the character of the 28 Lux.

The vignetting slider in the Effects panel only adds vignette – it darkens the edges or in the reverse direction, it makes them white. It does not remove vignette.

[pascallienard]

I think LR can't apply de-vignetting simply because the aperture is unknown, only a guess.
I can access this slider with another camera body and the LR de-vignetting is applied automatically in regard of the aperture with distortion and chromatic ab.

I remember some people talking about more vignette on the M10. Maybe the in-body correction was dimmed at that time. 
I read on the Jonathan Slack review that M11 as a little less vignette than M10. 

It's not a big deal, if all the M11 are acting the same.

(You can access a manual de-vignetting on LR on the lens corrections panel, manual tab, put some positive value and it will add exposure.)

 

Edited June 22, 2022 by pascallienard

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[hdmesa]

13 minutes ago, pascallienard said:

I think LR can't apply de-vignetting simply because the aperture is unknown, only a guess.
I can access this slider with another camera body and the LR de-vignetting is applied automatically in regard of the aperture with distortion and chromatic ab.

I remember some people talking about more vignette on the M10. Maybe the in-body correction was dimmed at that time. 
I read on the Jonathan Slack review that M11 as a little less vignette than M10. 

It's not a big deal, if all the M11 are acting the same.

(You can access a manual de-vignetting on LR on the lens corrections panel, manual tab, put some positive value and it will add exposure.)

 

Jokes on me, lol. I never noticed I could click on the word "Manual" – it looked like "Profile Manual" to me, like it was just telling me the name of the panel I was already using. Was "Manual" grayed out before the most recent update for M lenses?