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What mount does the Elmar 65mm have?


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Posted (edited)

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I know that it need the 16464/OTZFO focusing mount but I just can't figure out what mount this lens uses. Anyone can enlighten me? Thanks!

Background to my question: I wonder whether I could use the 16464/OTZFO focusing mount as a helicoid for M39 enlarging lenses.

Edited by Studienkamera
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Posted (edited)

16464/OTZFO is the Universal Focusing Mount for the 65mm f3.5 Elmar (which is a lens head), the 90 mm f2.8 Elmarit lens head, the 135mm f4 Tele-Elmarit lens head, and the other 135mm lens heads if the 16472 tube is also used. 16464 then mounts to Visoflex II or III.  These lenses will then focus from infinity to the closest focusing distance, which depends on the lens head used.

16473 is an adapter for 16464 that allows LTM lenses to be mounted.  The lenses will not focus to infinity.

To be precise, I think you mean LTM mount enlarging lenses which are L39 - 39mm diameter and 26 tpi pitch.  M39 is 39mm diameter and 1.0mm pitch.  The difference matters.

Edited by zeitz
Dimension error
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17 minutes ago, zeitz said:

16473 is an adapter for 16464 that allows LTM lenses to be mounted.  The lenses will not focus to infinity.

I was not aware of 16473 - Laney (2nd edn) has it listed in the index but the page it refers to (265) has no mention of this adapter.

Is this an alternate way of using LTM lenses on a M camera via a visoflex? Any chance of a pic showing the setup with the 16473 - I'm intrigued

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, romualdo said:

I was not aware of 16473 - Laney (2nd edn) has it listed in the index but the page it refers to (265) has no mention of this adapter.

I just checked the same page... I just ordered a 16473 from eBay. But it will take a few weeks until it arrives down under.

BTW, Hartmut Thiele "Leitz-Leica Bestellkatalog 1925-20212" also doesn't list the 16473. Not a common item.

Edited by Studienkamera
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Posted (edited)

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1 hour ago, romualdo said:

Is this an alternate way of using LTM lenses on a M camera via a visoflex? Any chance of a pic showing the setup with the 16473 - I'm intrigued

There are several ways to use an LTM lens on an M bayonet including the usual LTM to M adapter or OUBIO mount.  For Visoflex the most useful way is to use a bellows with the UOOYW/16590 mount.

A photo of 16473 is attached.  This is a gray version.  There also was a black version.  It just screws into the 16464 focusing mount.

1 hour ago, Studienkamera said:

Not a common item.

Indeed.

Edited by zeitz
Mistake.
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On 6/18/2022 at 11:05 PM, Studienkamera said:

I just checked the same page... I just ordered a 16473 from eBay. But it will take a few weeks until it arrives down under.

Nice score - saw that one on ebay disappear - I presume you nabbed it - what are you going to use it for - I presume you have an OTZFO

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13 minutes ago, romualdo said:

Nice score - saw that one on ebay disappear - I presume you nabbed it - what are you going to use it for - I presume you have an OTZFO

Yes, I bought a 16464 (+ 16471) today from Camera Lane in Melbourne. Seeing this OTZFO advertised, motivated me to start this thread in the first place. I am going to use the 16464 + 16473 combination with a Leica Focotar-2 50mm enlarging lens as a compact alternative to a bellows. 

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6 minutes ago, Studienkamera said:

Yes, I bought a 16464 (+ 16471) today from Camera Lane in Melbourne. Seeing this OTZFO advertised, motivated me to start this thread in the first place. I am going to use the 16464 + 16473 combination with a Leica Focotar-2 50mm enlarging lens as a compact alternative to a bellows. 

my OTZFO came with an Elmar 65mm lens head. I also have the OTSRO which when screwed into the OTZFO will accept the Elmar 135mm f4 head plus the other extension tube OTRPO.

Looks like I'm going to have to search for this elusive 16473

 

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2 hours ago, Studienkamera said:

I am going to use the 16464 + 16473 combination with a Leica Focotar-2 50mm enlarging lens as a compact alternative to a bellows. 

You chose wisely.  I have found the Focotar-2 to be superior as a close-up lens to the first version of the 65mm 3.5 Elmar and to the original Focotar.  I do not have a second version of the Elmar to complete the comparison.

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15 minutes ago, zeitz said:

You chose wisely.  I have found the Focotar-2 to be superior as a close-up lens to the first version of the 65mm 3.5 Elmar and to the original Focotar.  I do not have a second version of the Elmar to complete the comparison.

I  have had an Elmar 65 1st for years... and indeed wasn't my preferred macro lens for film Ms (the Elmar 135 lenshead was my best choice) ; few years ago (don't remember exactly... but I already was using M240 as "normal" body...) I found a nice black 65 + 16464 and bought... I was surprised by the difference from the old one : it's really a modern sharp lens fully enjoyable on digital : stands up au pair with Elmar 135 lenshead and also with the excellent Elmar R 100 f4 for bellows.

About 16464... I have always read that also a 16465 (formerly OTZFO*) does exist... a 16464 with 90° rotation facility (with tripod mount OUBIO-style) not that I have chased for it, but seems to me to have never seen one... do someone have one ? Is it a rare bird ?

 

 

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Well, there is a strange gap in the sequel of product numbers between the well-known 16464 (OTZFO) and 16466 (OUBIO), though I think the combination of both might have existed - if at all - only as a prototype. For the 65mm Elmar a special tripod facility was not really important, for the longer lenses they had the short mounts together with the 16466.

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40 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said:

I was surprised by the difference from the old one

Now I have to save up some money to get the second (black) version.

40 minutes ago, luigi bertolotti said:

do someone have one ? Is it a rare bird ?

I have one.  They are somewhat rare, but I see them for sale now and then.  I attached a photo.

 

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1 hour ago, UliWer said:

there is a strange gap in the sequel of product numbers between the well-known 16464 (OTZFO) and 16466 (OUBIO)

The numeric code I have for OTZFO* is indeed 16465.  Laney, 2nd Edition, page 429.  Laney says 1960 only.

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Posted (edited)

Speaking of Elmar 65 and odd rings... 😉 : Laney makes an assessment that looks unclear to me : he says that Elmar 65 could be mounted reversed for better macro performances... and this was achieved through a filter on the Elmar (and this sounds OK - you get a well accessible E41 female thread) and mounting it - reversed - onto the 16471 tube (which in turn fits the 16464/OTZFO) 

Now, i know well the 16471 : is the simplest way to extend macro capabilities of Elmar 65 without a bellows :

... but it has only its recessed A33 thread to mount the Elmar... its front mouth is "clean"... how can one fit the E41 filter thread ? was there some odd adapter ? The inner diameter of the 16471, anyway, is just 41mm... 

(btw, if such an adapter exists, it's probably only for the 1st Elmar 65... the black one fits series VII filters and this would make even more complicated the reversing, I think...) 

 

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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