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I may be in a minority but I think all shoe mounted meters on a Leica M are visually as ugly as a satellite tv dish on a listed building would be and most of them cannot be used for incident readings.

A Sekonic Twinmate is a better option IMO.  It’s small enough to slip in a pocket,  has a sliding diffuser for incident readings and is supplied with a removable plastic shoe mount for those who want to use it that way.  
 

Another point to think about is that Sekonic meters are calibrated properly during manufacture.
 



 

 
 

Edited by Ouroboros
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2 hours ago, Ouroboros said:

I may be in a minority but I think all shoe mounted meters on a Leica M are visually as ugly as a satellite tv dish on a listed building would be and most of them cannot be used for incident readings.

A Sekonic Twinmate is a better option IMO.  It’s small enough to slip in a pocket,  has a sliding diffuser for incident readings and is supplied with a removable plastic shoe mount for those who want to use it that way.  
 

Another point to think about is that Sekonic meters are calibrated properly during manufacture.
 



 

 
 

I couldn’t agree more on both the aesthetic and functional fronts. A Sekonic 308 is another example. In most circumstances, an incident meter is far more useful than reflected.  

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Thanks. (btw it’s the meter with the flap.) So it was set to ASA 6, but I just raised it to ASA 100 / DIN 22 per your instruction. (Query for later - how to use it with an ASA 400 film?)

The shutter speed when turning the wheel in the max clockwise direction, indicates just between 500 & 1000; in the max counterclockwise direction it’s on B-2.

The B-2 setting is also the setting at which the mark on the top of the meter wheel lines up with the vertical part of the right-angle arrow on the side of the meter, and that’s the setting I use to slide it on and off. 

If I recall correctly, the wheel on the meter in that position could be lifted (and maybe turned counterclockwise just a bit more), but that doesn’t work anymore. (Well, a tiny bit of vertical lift is still possible, but the wheel only has just about 1mm of upward play left.)  Also, there’s a bit of resistance on the last quarter of the counterclockwise turn - from /2 to B-2 - with sounds of squeaking and rubbing in the meter wheel.

 Thanks!

 

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The KEKS lightmeter is pretty functional, looks decent with a Leica, and by default comes with a plastic attachment (aluminum is available) that will be hard to cause damage to the camera outside of a drop or bang that would otherwise cause damage anyways. Other than the plastic, there is no part that makes contact with the camera. I'm quite happy with it, from function to aesthetics, and I feel like it's one of the better options around.

https://www.kekscameras.com/store/p3/KEKS-Lightmeter.html#/

That said, I almost never use it because I prefer my Sekonic 308 or Sunny 16. As has been mentioned, it's functional, but there's something about putting an external lightmeter on a beautiful camera like that which really throws off the balance. It's not terribly expensive, so might be worth it to give it a roll and see if it works.

Edited by nicelynice
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Hello Daniel,

Before doing anything else, please go to the Section called "Collectors & Historica" and there, near the top of the Page you will see a "Historica" section by J.C. Braconi. Click the word "Historica". Then, when the next page appears, "click" the RED word "Historica". Then, when the next page appears, go to near the bottom of the column on the left that is titled "Screw Mount". There you will see a chronological listing of various "Leica Meters". Please find yours & the date that it was introduced. The data is sometimes ABOVE the relevant picture. Please read & correlate photo & data carefully. Then let us know which meter we are discussing here so that we know how to proceed further.

Best Regards,

Michael

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I would recommend the Sekonic L-508 Zoom Master meter.  This is my go to meter for film photography and IMHO is the best light meter ever made.  Yes, it's big - but it is still the best in my book.  They are available on ebay, but are a little on the costly side.  A good second choice would be the Sekonic L-308X-U Flashmate Meter.  It's a much smaller and less costly alternative to the L-508.

I don't blame you one bit for wanting to keep the hot shoe of your beautiful M-A Titan pristine - but I would never sell that camera.  If there ever was a keeper, the M-A Titan is it.

Edited by Herr Barnack
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Hello Daniel

Meters calibrated in Weston Speeds can be utilized in a manner similar to meters calibrated in ASA. They both use the same progression of values. But the 2 different systems begin their numbering sequences at different points. ASA speeds can be converted to Weston speeds by subtracting 1/3 of a stop from the ASA (Now ISO.) number & putting that number on the Weston Dial. So, if a film says ASA or ISO 100/21 just set the Weston dial to 80. The DIN number on the Weston dial Leica Meter set to 80 should be DIN 21. As it would be on a ISO or ASA meter dial when that dial is set to 100. Because Weston 80 = DIN 21 = ASA 100 = ISO 100.

Which means that ASA or ISO 400 would be the same as Weston 320. All 3 would be DIN 27.

I'll be back.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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Thanks much. Sorry, I should have been clear. I meant it shows all three numbers. And from the way I read Braconi’s history, the Leicameter  M, which was introduced in 1955, originally showed all three film speed norms (ASA/DIN/Weston), while the later production runs dropped the Weston number. I was just letting you know, in case it mattered for what comes next, that mine still showed all three number systems, so it must have been an early production run of the Leicameter M.

I look forward to seeing how this puzzle unfolds further.

Thanks again!

Daniel

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Hello Daniel,

I'm back.

I think that it is possible that the mechanical operation has become a little sluggish from a lack of being used. If that is NOT the case: What I will suggest will not do any harm.

With the meter off the camera: Please roll the wheel from B/2 to 1000, back & forth GENTLY, for at least 25 times. Then see if that extends the range of operation over the entire B/2 thru 1000. The B/2 stops precisely at the B/2 because the little pin on the bottom of the meter wheel has to align precisely in the middle in between the 2 & the 5 of the early M3 with a 1 - 2 - 5 - 10 - 25 - 50 - 100 - 250 - 500 - 1000 shutter progression. The 1000 may turn a little beyond 1000.

In the later M3's of 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 15 - 30 - red dot - 60 - 125 - 250 - 500 - 1000: The shutter speed dial was simply engraved at different places on the same dial. Which is why the "4" is next to the slot for the meter pin. By the way, the "red dot" is 1/50th of a second. The fastest speed at which the first shutter curtain opens completely before the second curtain begins to travel. That is why 1/50, or the "red dot", is the fastest speed that electronic flash can be used at.

This new engraving (Also being done by other camera manufacturers at the same time.) also gives a person more & finer divisions between marked shutter speeds. 12 instead of 10.

By the way, some early meters are 1 - 2 - 5 - 10. Then they changed the engraving & the meters were engraved 1 - 2 - 4 - 8 - 15. Both earlier & later engraved meters work on both earlier & later engraved cameras. A person just has to "interpolate" the reading on the meter to know what the actual shutter speed is. And remember that where the meter's indicator says that the lens opening should be set at a certain lens opening (Such as f4): That is where the aperture on the LENS should be set.

Please also notice that this re-engraving has given the user 12 steps from 1 to 1000 instead of the 10 of the original M3. The new steps (With the exception of the red dot.) will either double or halve the exposure, dependent on direction.

As to the wheel going up & down: It should go up about 2 mm & then stop & then continue turning in the direction of the longer whole seconds. You might try this 25 or so times.

More to come.

Best Regards,

Michael

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Thanks, Michael.

I just just did that, and it made the wheel turn a bit more easily, but only after something like 100 turns or more - not 25. If I push the wheel up and keep it lifted, it now turns without resistance. But when I turn it without also lifting/pushing it up, there still a bit of irregular rumbly resistance along the way, though less than before. (Seems perhaps like mineral deposits on the inside? That green stuff you sometimes see on the outside?)

In any event, the clockwise stop at between 500 & 1,000 (actually closer to 1,000) is a hard stop - and doesn’t seem related to the problem - and hasn’t really changed. The vertical play hasn’t changed at all. There’s still only 1mm upward play left, and the pin doesn’t drop.
 

In the B-2 position, I’ve also lifted it up and turned the wheel a bit further counterclockwise in the direction of the horizontal arrow tip, then letting it drop down back down fully into the B-2 position (aligned with the vertical part of the right-angled arrow) again. I’ve repeated this a bunch of times to see if that might loosen up the vertical play in the wheel, but there’s been no change at all - at least none I can detect. Still just that 1mm upward lift space until the wheel hits the upper casing.

Is there anything you think I should try next?

Thanks!

 

 

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Hello Daniel,

Before going further with the wheel there is a question about the selenium cell.

Is the meter zero'd? Meaning: If you cover the cell completely does the indicator needle sit directly under the line indicating "0"? if not, many selenium meters have a screw & a "0" underneath the body. This combination usually has arrows pointing in 2 directions from the screw head indicating that by turning the screw clockwise or counter clockwise a person can move the needle to be directly under the "0" line when the metering cell is entirely covered.

Once the meter is zero'd then check to see if it registers in either, or both, the bright light & the low light positions. We can deal with the booster cell later. Its operability is not relevant here. It also might take some doing to get it to work even if everything pertaining to the meter itself is fine.

Please use a properly fitting screw driver or, if you don't have 1, you can carve a simple screw driver out of a scrap of wood. Like with cameras, many of these meter screws & parts are made out of soft material & are subject to damage if the tool is the wrong size or/& if too much force is used. Cameras/meters are like people: If you are forcing them: You are probably doing something wrong. Many fine instruments, cameras, meters, etc. are assembled or/& worked on by professionals with wooden tools.

More to come.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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Thanks, Michael. So I zeroed it just fine. Not sure it was off 0 much. It gives me readings with the flap open (low light) & shut (high light). When I check the readings against my simple hand held Sekonic L-158, the readings sometimes match, sometimes not (but it’s of course an art to point the two meters identically, and my Sekonic is a simple model).

Also, I should add, the Leicameter still shows 100ASA=22DIN=80WESTON, not the ISO100=21DIN of today. I have it set to 100 ASA.

 Thanks again.

 

 

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On 6/20/2022 at 12:52 PM, aesop said:

...I'd start considering an MP. Seriously.

I think if I'd bought a $20k limited edition meterless camera that scalpers had just turned into a $40k camera, its first accessory would be a regular MP as a 'stunt double' for actual use, or a pre-scratched M2 I could stick an MR meter on without having to worry about the finish. But if I were actually to use something as pretty as this, I wouldn't want to spoil the effect with some dinky meter perched on the top. A hand meter isn't much less convenient, because you're still going to have to transfer both settings to your camera unless you have a coupled Leicameter that takes care of the shutter speed, and if you buy one with an incident mode it's also more versatile. The meters in the Gossen Sixtomat Digital range are slim and pocketable with very clear readouts.

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On 6/16/2022 at 9:00 AM, Ouroboros said:

I may be in a minority but I think all shoe mounted meters on a Leica M are visually as ugly as a satellite tv dish on a listed building would be and most of them cannot be used for incident readings.

A Sekonic Twinmate is a better option IMO.  It’s small enough to slip in a pocket,  has a sliding diffuser for incident readings and is supplied with a removable plastic shoe mount for those who want to use it that way.  
 

Another point to think about is that Sekonic meters are calibrated properly during manufacture.
 



 

 
 

Yes I like the Twinmate very much and the battery lasts for ages. I don't use mine on the hotshoe.

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