Leica m-p viewfinder frame lines

[Helge]

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Helge:

From my point of view the reason seems to be fairly simple: with the former „a la carte“ program or something similar close to your proposal makes the viewfinder change (or other changes like this) part of the production process. The production process however has been straitened out with the removal of the „a la carte“ option. I think this was necessary to achieve today’s throughput.

Changes like the viewfinder change have been moved to customer service, this decouple it completely from all production processes, production locations and production personal.

l‘m absolutely sure this was also an obvious step since the share of „a la carte“ orders might have dropped significantly with the overall increase of production volume in the last years, so efficiency was important. 
I admit that there could be some potential for simplification by keeping the camera after production in an intermediate location and to CS from there..

As I mentioned, enabling a „build to order“ process in regular production requires a lot more people and a lot more administration. Considering the present order intake for regular cameras the share for „a la carte“ has probably dropped significantly. Don‘t compare this to car manufacturers, almost nobody buys a car in it’s standard configuration and secondly, you pay a lot of money for this service!

[logan2z]

Just now, Vlad Soare said:

True. But then you have to wait eight months for that Porsche if you're lucky, or even more if aren't. 
 

And how long does one currently need to wait to buy an M-A or MP,  both of which seem to be perpetually out of stock at most dealers?

I'd personally be willing to wait for a black paint M-A (as a random example  ) for 8 months if Leica would be willing to produce one for me.

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[Helge]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb logan2z:

I guess since this is the 'film' Leica sub-forum and I shoot film with Leicas exclusively, my brain was in film mode.  And since Leica produces film cameras in small batches sporadically throughout the year, rather than producing them at higher volumes like the digital cameras, I was thinking it would be easier to build something more bespoke.  My understanding is that Leica builds cameras - even digital cameras - in much lower volumes than other manufacturers, and so I figured it would be possible to do something like that even in the context of digital cameras.  But apparently that's not the case or they would have kept the 'a la carte' program around. 

This has changed! If you follow some of the threads here you might notice that Leica has stated several times that they did max-out their capacity for film M due to high demand.

[logan2z]

3 minutes ago, Helge said:

As I mentioned, enabling a „build to order“ process in regular production requires a lot more people and a lot more administration. Considering the present order intake for regular cameras the share for „a la carte“ has probably dropped significantly. Don‘t compare this to car manufacturers, almost nobody buys a car in it’s standard configuration and secondly, you pay a lot of money for this service!

True, but I think it's also rather expensive to have a camera converted to a different VF magnification or convert it to black paint from silver/black chrome at the Leica factory after the fact - assuming they're even doing the latter anymore, the Leica 'Redesign' program that was instituted not that long ago seems to have disappeared from their web site as well.

[Helge]

vor 25 Minuten schrieb logan2z:

True, but I think it's also rather expensive to have a camera converted to a different VF magnification or convert it to black paint from silver/black chrome at the Leica factory after the fact - assuming they're even doing the latter anymore, the Leica 'Redesign' program that was instituted not that long ago seems to have disappeared from their web site as well.

Yes, this is expensive as well, however it is a process completely separated from the regular production process, so no effect on costs, quality or run time for the „unconverted“ products.

The conversion however is paid by the people who ask for it😉

From my point of view a smart move considering dropping demand for conversion and increasing demand for standard.

[Huss]

yeah the a la carte process is what you needed.  I remember building cameras on there just for fun.  One camera I wanted was the M7 w.  the MP style rewind knob but even w that program it was not offered.

[250swb]

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13 hours ago, logan2z said:

And how long does one currently need to wait to buy an M-A or MP,  both of which seem to be perpetually out of stock at most dealers?

I'd personally be willing to wait for a black paint M-A (as a random example  ) for 8 months if Leica would be willing to produce one for me.

I think that if you put an actual order in with a Leica Dealer they will put you on the list, so next time there are a batch of cameras released one of them may be yours. Waiting to find one 'in stock' is doomed to failure because of all the other people who have already reserved theirs. It's kind of like the joke of the person praying to God 'please God let me win the lottery', and God replies 'Yes OK, but at least give me a break and buy a ticket first'.

[logan2z]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

I think that if you put an actual order in with a Leica Dealer they will put you on the list, so next time there are a batch of cameras released one of them may be yours. Waiting to find one 'in stock' is doomed to failure because of all the other people who have already reserved theirs. It's kind of like the joke of the person praying to God 'please God let me win the lottery', and God replies 'Yes OK, but at least give me a break and buy a ticket first'.

 I actually have an M-A and am not looking to purchase another.  I was just pointing out that one already has a long wait to purchase a Leica film camera, so if they were made to wait a bit longer to get one to their specs it wouldn't be a big deal.

Anyway, I think I've derailed the OP's thread enough.  Back to which VF to choose for a 28mm shooter (although I think that's already been answered)... 

[stRrangeFinder]

Hey People:

I'm considering some landscape lens options for the MP 0.72, and am considering the CV 21mm F4 based on size and favorable user reviews.  Anyone out there who has tried this, and would I need a 21mm viewfinder, or can I get by with the MP frame lines?

Thanks, Tim

[Topsy]

8 hours ago, stRrangeFinder said:

Hey People:

I'm considering some landscape lens options for the MP 0.72, and am considering the CV 21mm F4 based on size and favorable user reviews.  Anyone out there who has tried this, and would I need a 21mm viewfinder, or can I get by with the MP frame lines?

Thanks, Tim

You'll definitely need the 21mm Viewfinder the diifference in FoV between the 28 and 21 is massive.

[250swb]

It's a good lens, I sometimes prefer it over my 28mm Summicron and the difference in image quality is minimal on film and only really noticeable at f/16. As @Topsy says you'll need a viewfinder and the plastic Voigtlander 21mm finder is probably the best with a bright view and it's much cheaper than some of the opposition. As such try to buy a lens that comes with the viewfinder and the combined deal will probably be a bit cheaper.