6 months down the road: tough going?

[lct]

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46 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Of the recent cameras I've owned, here's a list from quietest to loudest when used in mechanical shutter modes (except Q/Q2, which is a leaf shutter):

1. Q/Q2 (I imagine the X1D cameras are similar having leaf shutters as well)
2. R5/R6
3. SL2-S
4. M10/P/R
5. M11
6. GFX 100S
7. GFX 50S/R
8. 5D series (DSLR)

So it's not the loudest, but its loudness combined with the long ca-chunk-lunk mechanical stapler sound is not as satisfying as the M10 and analog M variants (simple "click") and is more distracting in use than the R5 or SL2-S, which are both better dampened.

It's not stopping me from using the M11, but I'm saying my experience using the M11 would be more enjoyable if it were not as loud and/or if we had EFCS, which would shorten the perceived duration of the shutter sound by about half.

"Sounds"  subjective too as i would rate the M11 above the SL2S. Some people hear better high frequencies, others lower ones. Some people prefer shorter sounds, others longer ones, etc. What seems (is?) sure anyway is that the M11 shutter sound is barely audible to anyone but the photographer. 

[hdmesa]

46 minutes ago, lct said:

"Sounds"  subjective too as i would rate the M11 above the SL2S. Some people hear better high frequencies, others lower ones. Some people prefer shorter sounds, others longer ones, etc. What seems (is?) sure anyway is that the M11 shutter sound is barely audible to anyone but the photographer. 

Point taken. But for me? –> The M11 is like three sneezes in a row during a quiet wedding ceremony versus one sneeze with the M10-P/R. Or maybe trying to walk quietly through the forest, and I step on three twigs instead of one 😂🤷‍♂️

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[idusidusi]

On 6/5/2022 at 11:03 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

The M11 is the best M I have shot with. I bonded with it instantly and like it more now than when I purchased it.

I stopped following the M11 bashing somewhere around when the discussions over it having failed for not having IBIS. When people buy a camera and then. complain about a feature it doesn't even have, I'm done.

Couldn't agree more, I love my M11. Really nice to use and I have attached a Leica Paracord strap, at 126cm just perfect for the way I like to carry over shoulder wearing a jacket or not.

[setuporg]

23 hours ago, hdmesa said:

• M10/P/R

That / was worth $4K at the launch of P and R

[hdmesa]

3 minutes ago, setuporg said:

That / was worth $4K at the launch of P and R

A quieter shutter
Doth make the heart flutter
Though maybe not quite
At that price
Alright

[Herr Barnack]

On 6/15/2022 at 11:49 AM, lct said:

The M11 has the sexier shutter sound by far.

 

 

 

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Edited June 17, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Tailwagger]

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On 6/16/2022 at 6:21 PM, hdmesa said:

Point taken. But for me? –> The M11 is like three sneezes in a row during a quiet wedding ceremony versus one sneeze with the M10-P/R. Or maybe trying to walk quietly through the forest, and I step on three twigs instead of one 😂🤷‍♂️

Hmm... have you ever shot with an X1D?  It's the only camera I've ever owned that I'm embarrassed to trigger with anyone in earshot, at least with certain lenses.  IMO, the R sounds pretty exactly same when used in LV.

Edited June 18, 2022 by Tailwagger

[setuporg]

1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

have you ever shot with an X1D?  It's the only camera I've ever owned that I'm embarrassed to trigger with anyone in earshot, at least with certain lenses

I think it was the original 45 that was so flabbergasting.  The later lenses were quieter.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

10 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

Hmm... have you ever shot with an X1D?  It's the only camera I've ever owned that I'm embarrassed to trigger with anyone in earshot, at least with certain lenses.  IMO, the R sounds pretty exactly same when used in LV.

I take it you never shot with the M8 or M9……

The original 45 was pretty abrasive. Newer lenses are quieter. But not close to the early M’s.

Mind you I come from the days of strap on motor drives on film bodies. Everything is quiet nowdays.

Gordon

[charlie9089]

I wholeheartedly agree with previous comments that it's a waste of time reading opinions about a camera from people who've never used it. I ordered an M11 the day it was launched, trading in my M10-P. I was really excited about using the M11 but the firmware was really buggy.  I'm sure this is/will be sorted out but during this time I would be missing shots and having a frustrating time with the camera. So I sold my M11 and got an M10-R which as the last of the M10 series has reliable firmware. I don't hold with IBIS being necessary or even desirable for the M which is a relatively small full frame camera (compared to my Canon R5)  I can carry around everywhere. If I need IBIS and other tech features I have my R5 which with the lens included is around three times the size! I couldn't see much of a difference in dynamic range comparing the M11 to the M10-R but both these cameras handle highlights way better than my M10-P or M240 did. When I handed my M11 back to the store, I asked if anyone else had done the same and I was the only one. So I guess most people prefer the M11 but for me the M10-R is the ultimate digital Leica. The things I miss most about the M11 are the USB charging and great battery life but I can live without them.

[jakontil]

8 hours ago, charlie9089 said:

I wholeheartedly agree with previous comments that it's a waste of time reading opinions about a camera from people who've never used it. I ordered an M11 the day it was launched, trading in my M10-P. I was really excited about using the M11 but the firmware was really buggy.  I'm sure this is/will be sorted out but during this time I would be missing shots and having a frustrating time with the camera. So I sold my M11 and got an M10-R which as the last of the M10 series has reliable firmware. I don't hold with IBIS being necessary or even desirable for the M which is a relatively small full frame camera (compared to my Canon R5)  I can carry around everywhere. If I need IBIS and other tech features I have my R5 which with the lens included is around three times the size! I couldn't see much of a difference in dynamic range comparing the M11 to the M10-R but both these cameras handle highlights way better than my M10-P or M240 did. When I handed my M11 back to the store, I asked if anyone else had done the same and I was the only one. So I guess most people prefer the M11 but for me the M10-R is the ultimate digital Leica. The things I miss most about the M11 are the USB charging and great battery life but I can live without them.

Exactly my experience, except i still keep my m11, but your findings are on the line with mine

usb C, and battery 😂 

[hdmesa]

1 hour ago, MikeMike88 said:

I’m new to digital Leica. My M6 has done me just fine. Really waffled between M10-r and the M11 went with the M11. 

  But not a fan of the collaboration with APPLE as it seems to me as that somehow cheapens the brand somehow. 

Here’s a question , what is japanese color or American color ? Wouldn’t Leica be German colour? Doesn’t it all come down to how you process the file or do Leica shooters depend of the camera to do all the work ? 

 Just had a brief discussion with a mate in china trying to figure out what the LEICA look is and if it may just be smoke and mirrors to justify the cost of the glass and bodies .

Yes I know the build is premium and it would be hard to buy another similar sized body such as Fuji or Sony because of how plastic they feel in comparison.

talking about shutter sound , I’m used to my Hassleblad 500 sound and think that is sexy as … never found it to bother anyone or attract attention but then again its not a camera i’d use to surreptitiously to take fotos at the opera. The M11 is quiet enough. 

I think this is all well-discussed in the thread (or other active threads) already, re: regional color history and preferences. In the end, all that matters is: do you like the results you're getting, are you happy with the gear quality/engineering, and did you have to live in a cardboard box for six months to afford it?

[Al Brown]

On 6/13/2022 at 10:54 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

*off topic post* feel free to skip by.

The GFX100S is a spectacular camera. So are the lenses. But I prefer the lesser X1D for the following reasons.

1. It has sensational ergonomics. Best camera in the hand, ever.

2. It has the best menus of any camera ever. Leica got close with the TL but dropped it too early.

3. The long exposure implementation is unmatched. No LENR is required for 1 hour exposures and the count down timer is programable.

4. I slightly prefer the XCD lenses (except for the 110mm Fuji).

5. The colour science. It may take 4 seconds to start up but that’s becaue it’s loading 500MB of lens and colour data into the camera.

6. It’s tiny, with the 45P. Like M size and weight.

7. The 80mm might be the best short portrait lens ever made.

8. It’s soooo pretty.

I like the GFX a lot. The tri flip screen and aperture rings on the lenses where they should be are highlights. There’s no denying the IQ, although at my print sizes (A1) it’s not vast. The AF and IBIS expand the shooting envelope. But the menus are vast, there are buttons everywhere and it’s not as good in the hand as the X1D. On a tripod, nothing bests the X1D, although I do like a flippy screen. In the hand there’s functionally better but none that feel as good or natural to use.

I treat the X1D like a medium format M11. If you do that the AF speed isn’t an issue and like the M11 it has what it needs to get the job done brilliantly rather than trying to do everything. The X1D may not be a MF rangefinder but it does share some of the DNA of an M11. Beautiful. Simple. Tactile. Fun.

It seems I prefer scalpels over Swiss army knives…..

Gordon

…. back to regular programming.

Incredible experience. 100% opposite to mine. I was so frustrated with the Hasselblad I could not stand it. Awful UX/UI. It is pretty tho, I must give you that. 
The GFX OTOH (which I still own) is so incredible that it is always there to pair with my M10-R.

(Sorry if off topic, had to share my opinion).

 

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[jdlaing]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Incredible experience. 100% opposite to mine. I was so frustrated with the Hasselblad I could not stand it. Awful UX/UI. It is pretty tho, I must give you that. 
The GFX OTOH (which I still own) is so incredible that it is always there to pair with my M10-R.

(Sorry if off topic, had to share my opinion).

 

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Your legs need waxing.

[Al Brown]

30 minutes ago, jdlaing said:

Your legs need waxing.

You should have seen my other parts.

[SrMi]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Incredible experience. 100% opposite to mine. I was so frustrated with the Hasselblad I could not stand it. Awful UX/UI. It is pretty tho, I must give you that. 
The GFX OTOH (which I still own) is so incredible that it is always there to pair with my M10-R.

(Sorry if off topic, had to share my opinion).

 

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I own both GFX and X1D and much prefer the UI and ergonomics of X1D. That is why my X1D finds more use than my GFX100S. 

[Al Brown]

31 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I own both GFX and X1D and much prefer the UI and ergonomics of X1D. That is why my X1D finds more use than my GFX100S. 

I actually know another photographer with both of these and he says the same as you two. I was a long time analog (553ELX, 503CW) and digital (H3D, H4D) Hasselblad user and really wanted to love it. There is no debate about ergonomics and the looks, the Hassy wins both by far. Also, apparently they fixed tons of stuff with X1D II (my experience is with Mk. I only).

Edited June 29, 2022 by Al Brown

[FlashGordonPhotography]

8 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Incredible experience. 100% opposite to mine. I was so frustrated with the Hasselblad I could not stand it. Awful UX/UI. It is pretty tho, I must give you that. 
The GFX OTOH (which I still own) is so incredible that it is always there to pair with my M10-R.

(Sorry if off topic, had to share my opinion).

 

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Differences are why we have choice. Lot’s of people find the X1D frustrating. I do understand why, even though I don’t. I have a black and a silver X1D, plus my mk2 and 907x.

I treat them as a larger M so I’m not looking for speed. My GFX is my larger sensor SL2.

Gordon

[jdlaing]

5 hours ago, Al Brown said:

You should have seen my other parts.

 

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[davidmknoble]

What drew me to the M11 was more like a progression.

Someone early on this thread talked about moving from the R to the M10R.  I love the R system and M system for black and white film (still shoot them) and I love some of the R glass.  That said, I used the SL system with the R glass a lot and had the SL2 for a short period but did not like the lack of dynamic range (landscape work) so I got the SL2-S.  Now the SL2-S has the same BSI sensor technology as the M11 and the color and dynamic range are superb in that camera body.

So, one thing about the M11 that I wanted was the increased resolution of the BSI sensor.

The other thing I liked was the choice of DNG file size, I can shoot 18, 36 or 63 on the same body depending on what the end result is.  This means I can control my total disk storage (which gets crazy high after lots of film scans and decades of images).

The last draw was the dynamic range.  I love the S system for landscape work and the S007 has a great dynamic range, but the S3 is another step up.  At ISO 64, the M11 is approaching that level.  If anything, I’ll be the next S system has a BSI sensor.

In any event the nice extra is the change in color array. It is a lot like the S3 and the starting color is superb (IMHO).  I was worried about the lag from press to photo using constant live view, but that is from the viewpoint of a Leica film shooter with instant image. The Leica M digital systems have always had a lag and I’ve always had to anticipate earlier.  

I do wonder how fast the response would be on the M11 if there was a closed shutter option.  Even if it did not have metering, if we could use a manual mode with the shutter closed already, it could be awful fast from shutter press to image, at least saving the shutter closing time.

Overall, coming from the M10 (not R) this was worth the upgrade and I think with the EVF, will allow some good R usage on the M body for the first time because of the need for live view.  Having had the M10M since it first came out, I finally feel like it is a compact system that could begin to remove the need for the S system in terms of dynamic range.

Only had the M11 less than a week, but so far, so good.