6 months down the road: tough going?

[M11 for me]

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Am 5.6.2022 um 22:29 schrieb setuporg:

Checking in after a while, I see that M11 is still rather polarizing.  

It's not the M10 that everyone fell in love with right away.

Clearly if something requires so much debate or work to love, it's not a clear-cut home run success.  I've made a decision to postpone upgrading my M10R, and so far find that I keep enjoying it and also giving lots of light to the M9 that I got instead of waiting for M11.  The color difference is drastic while both have a Leica look.  I can get the M11 look from the Hasselblad 907x.  If there's a disagreement on whether M11 even has a Leica look, it's another reason to wait until things settle down, or the P comes out.

I do not know if it is fully true: But I have the strong feeling that whenever yout name pops up in a thread you come up with sonething against the M11. The intensity of that behaviour seems to me to be immense. Then I wonder why you are so intensely behind that M11? Why not just be happy with the decision you took? Should you not rather go to a Leica store and rent an M11 for a few days so that you finally know what you are talking about? Its annoing to come across such stuff again and again. 

[elmars]

vor einer Stunde schrieb THEME:

Pretty content with the M11. Latest firmware cleans up most bugs. Controls are clean and simple. Camera body to me is close to perfect, cleaner and more minimalist than predecessors.

Only shooting DNG so far. They require some tweaking, am still not able to shoot properly OOC without any PP needed, but the files are most elastic with exceptional dynamic range.

The additional resolution of course is a blessing. Was never into cropping, now the resolution allows for a much more flexible shooting style.

Not sure I'd upgrade from an M10. But of course many M11 complaints are from defensive M10 owners. 

I'd say this M11 might hold its power for many years to come.

 

I agree. Aside from the sensor (far better than the M10, a little bit better than the M10R) the M11 has changed my workflow:

At home I simply connect the camera for download to the computer. On a trip I import them via WiFi (fast, way faster than cable) into the iphone and transfer them into LR and from there into the Adobe cloud. Easy, fast and save (copy in the cloud).

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[jakontil]

46 minutes ago, elmars said:

I agree. Aside from the sensor (far better than the M10, a little bit better than the M10R) the M11 has changed my workflow:

At home I simply connect the camera for download to the computer. On a trip I import them via WiFi (fast, way faster than cable) into the iphone and transfer them into LR and from there into the Adobe cloud. Easy, fast and save (copy in the cloud).

Hi elmars, have leica solved most bugs like freezes ? I dont quite shoot in burst where some experienced over exposed frames so i dont mind

my unit still in the box felt not ready yet to explore due to annoying bugs 

[elmars]

There is no need to wait imO. I never shoot in burst mode (only in the betatest phase for test purposes), so I cannot say anything to this. The firmware seems quite stable to me, highlight weighted metering is now ok. No freezes. But: in two weeks of steady using firmware 1.4.0.0 on a trip to the baltic sea I had one corrupted file and two heavy overexposed photos (one multifield, one highlight). I would not care much about this, all was on one day in between a few hours (whatever this means). I noticed while shooting the corrupted file that the camera is not working correct. The overexposure is more tricky of course, if You are one who does not control his photos suddenly. 

[setuporg]

11 hours ago, M11 for me said:

Why not just be happy with the decision you took?

This is a forum for everyone, and there are many strong opinions being expressed every day.  Happiness is not the only mode we use here.  There are preferences and requirements that users express, across many issues, and since attention to design and ergonomics around photography are important to the perfectionists here, many things are discussed in terms of differences, lacking, or even annoyance.  As usual, it's easy to skip posts that one's not interested in, especially when one's established an easy way to do so for themselves.

[Ktsa5239]

It’s been 5 months since I’ve had the M11 and after slightly over 4000 shots, I’m absolutely loving it. And to me the M11 was a bigger jump from the M10R than when I went from the M10 to M10R.

Yes there are some firmware issues but the colours, the ability to crop, the new metering, the lighter weight, the amazing battery life and the 64 iso plus electronic shutter allowing me to shoot my noctilux at bright daylight. I took the M10R out several times and missed the M11 every time. I guess im ready to part with the M10R.

I took this shot handheld and the iso performance was awesome allowing for enough shutter speed to not have visible motion blur even when printed to A2 size.

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[ravinj]

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On 6/10/2022 at 6:08 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I see no reason that anyone needs to be convinced about the M11. M's, after all, are an emotional purchase. Leicas are one of the few brands people bond with in the photography world, so it makes sense that some times some people won't want the M11. I didn't really bond with the M10R but I did instantly with the M11. Others are the opposite. What I see as great may be "meh" to someone else. What I see as a nothing may be a huge deal. What is true is the M10R and M11 are different. We are lucky to have two options that are both excellent cameras in the right hands.

There have been some cameras I haven't bonded with (Mamyia 7II, M10R, Fuji XPro2, Canon 5D2) that I thought were ideal for me and those I have adored (XPan, M9, X1D, 907x). I'm not even completely sure why. The GFX100S is demonstratibly better than my X1D but I still prefer the latter. The XPro2 should have been my ideal AF backup to my M's but it sits in a drawer.

We don't have to like what others do or what is new or popular. We're all photographers. That's enough.

Gordon

I think you may have mentioned this in another thread, but can't find it, so will ask: why do you like the X1D over the GFX100/S? 

[Kim Dahl]

On 6/11/2022 at 2:57 PM, elmars said:

There is no need to wait imO. I never shoot in burst mode (only in the betatest phase for test purposes), so I cannot say anything to this. The firmware seems quite stable to me, highlight weighted metering is now ok. No freezes. But: in two weeks of steady using firmware 1.4.0.0 on a trip to the baltic sea I had one corrupted file and two heavy overexposed photos (one multifield, one highlight). I would not care much about this, all was on one day in between a few hours (whatever this means). I noticed while shooting the corrupted file that the camera is not working correct. The overexposure is more tricky of course, if You are one who does not control his photos suddenly. 

I'm glad to read you think firmware is ok now.  I'm planning to upgrade my M9 and MD.  I will still keep the MD until I get to know the M11.  Maybe forever ❤️.  It's a nice camera.  But I could use a more modern M with high MB.  Would otherwise wait for M11P but do not think I will wait that long.  Life is short.  Then I also drop my L Mount which was APSC.

[Kim Dahl]

2 hours ago, Ktsa5239 said:

It’s been 5 months since I’ve had the M11 and after slightly over 4000 shots, I’m absolutely loving it. And to me the M11 was a bigger jump from the M10R than when I went from the M10 to M10R.

Yes there are some firmware issues but the colours, the ability to crop, the new metering, the lighter weight, the amazing battery life and the 64 iso plus electronic shutter allowing me to shoot my noctilux at bright daylight. I took the M10R out several times and missed the M11 every time. I guess im ready to part with the M10R.

I took this shot handheld and the iso performance was awesome allowing for enough shutter speed to not have visible motion blur even when printed to A2 size.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Nice picture.  Many details.  Which lenses have you used APO?

[Ktsa5239]

6 hours ago, Kim Dahl said:

Nice picture.  Many details.  Which lenses have you used APO?

Thanks! Yep that’s with the 35APO lens

[FlashGordonPhotography]

On 6/13/2022 at 1:04 AM, ravinj said:

I think you may have mentioned this in another thread, but can't find it, so will ask: why do you like the X1D over the GFX100/S? 

*off topic post* feel free to skip by.

The GFX100S is a spectacular camera. So are the lenses. But I prefer the lesser X1D for the following reasons.

1. It has sensational ergonomics. Best camera in the hand, ever.

2. It has the best menus of any camera ever. Leica got close with the TL but dropped it too early.

3. The long exposure implementation is unmatched. No LENR is required for 1 hour exposures and the count down timer is programable.

4. I slightly prefer the XCD lenses (except for the 110mm Fuji).

5. The colour science. It may take 4 seconds to start up but that’s becaue it’s loading 500MB of lens and colour data into the camera.

6. It’s tiny, with the 45P. Like M size and weight.

7. The 80mm might be the best short portrait lens ever made.

8. It’s soooo pretty.

I like the GFX a lot. The tri flip screen and aperture rings on the lenses where they should be are highlights. There’s no denying the IQ, although at my print sizes (A1) it’s not vast. The AF and IBIS expand the shooting envelope. But the menus are vast, there are buttons everywhere and it’s not as good in the hand as the X1D. On a tripod, nothing bests the X1D, although I do like a flippy screen. In the hand there’s functionally better but none that feel as good or natural to use.

I treat the X1D like a medium format M11. If you do that the AF speed isn’t an issue and like the M11 it has what it needs to get the job done brilliantly rather than trying to do everything. The X1D may not be a MF rangefinder but it does share some of the DNA of an M11. Beautiful. Simple. Tactile. Fun.

It seems I prefer scalpels over Swiss army knives…..

Gordon

…. back to regular programming.

[eleven24]

I went from a 240 to an M10 and never felt connected to the M10.  Skipped over the later M10 variants, but upgraded to the M11 and I absolutely love this thing. The new metering took some getting used to, but I've found setting EC to -3/4 in most situations puts me where I want to be.  Love the images coming off of it, the reduced weight (I have the black paint model) and the brighter (to me) viewfinder.

Truly enjoying the M11, even with the quirky firmware that I'm sure will smooth out over time.

[ravinj]

6 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

*off topic post* feel free to skip by.

The GFX100S is a spectacular camera. So are the lenses. But I prefer the lesser X1D for the following reasons.

1. It has sensational ergonomics. Best camera in the hand, ever.

2. It has the best menus of any camera ever. Leica got close with the TL but dropped it too early.

3. The long exposure implementation is unmatched. No LENR is required for 1 hour exposures and the count down timer is programable.

4. I slightly prefer the XCD lenses (except for the 110mm Fuji).

5. The colour science. It may take 4 seconds to start up but that’s becaue it’s loading 500MB of lens and colour data into the camera.

6. It’s tiny, with the 45P. Like M size and weight.

7. The 80mm might be the best short portrait lens ever made.

8. It’s soooo pretty.

I like the GFX a lot. The tri flip screen and aperture rings on the lenses where they should be are highlights. There’s no denying the IQ, although at my print sizes (A1) it’s not vast. The AF and IBIS expand the shooting envelope. But the menus are vast, there are buttons everywhere and it’s not as good in the hand as the X1D. On a tripod, nothing bests the X1D, although I do like a flippy screen. In the hand there’s functionally better but none that feel as good or natural to use.

I treat the X1D like a medium format M11. If you do that the AF speed isn’t an issue and like the M11 it has what it needs to get the job done brilliantly rather than trying to do everything. The X1D may not be a MF rangefinder but it does share some of the DNA of an M11. Beautiful. Simple. Tactile. Fun.

It seems I prefer scalpels over Swiss army knives…..

Gordon

…. back to regular programming.

Thank you very much for the detailed answer! I always felt there was "something" about the X1D and its images that made it very appealing.

[ravinj]

1 hour ago, eleven24 said:

I went from a 240 to an M10 and never felt connected to the M10.  Skipped over the later M10 variants, but upgraded to the M11 and I absolutely love this thing. The new metering took some getting used to, but I've found setting EC to -3/4 in most situations puts me where I want to be.  Love the images coming off of it, the reduced weight (I have the black paint model) and the brighter (to me) viewfinder.

Truly enjoying the M11, even with the quirky firmware that I'm sure will smooth out over time.

I *sort of* went the same route. Loved the M240 and its tank like build, battery life and vastly better rangefinder compared to my M9 (which always drifted with the slightest bump). Got the M10, but was largely neutral towards it. Felt the M10-R was slightly better. Now have the M11 (finally), but haven't opened the box, yet. 

Edited June 14, 2022 by ravinj

[tom0511]

I - for myself - decided to get out of the Hassy system and use the M11 instead. While I still think the overall IQ of the Hassy is a little higher, the M IQ has become so good that I now see a reason to carry the larger lenses of Hassy. Also while improved I still find the x1dII a little slowish for my use (as a family father of young kids etc.). I would have decided other way if I was a main landscape shooter. It is the still slow startup time, I also sometimes feel that there can be a certain shutter lag, and I dont like the on/off button. I much prefer a switch, where I know if I just switched the camera on or off. (like Leica/Nikon/Canon,...) Everything else I like a lot about the x1dII.

So now I try to get the best out of the M11, but still experimenting with different exposure metering, different raw converter, different lenses etc.

Overall I am pretty connected to the M11 allready.

[Herr Barnack]

On 6/5/2022 at 5:18 PM, SrMi said:

I love my M10-R, but I have not touched it since I got the M11. 
By the way, a lot of critiques comes from forum members who do not own an M11.

IMO, the only real disadvantage of M11 is the upgrade cost.

What he said.

Quote

Debates are not debates when most people on the negative side of the conversation have never used the product. Literally the definition of insanity, IMO.

And what he said.

I am still mystified as to why people who have never touched an M11 or made even one shutter click with it continue to bash what many are calling Leica's best digital M ever.

Quote

Literally the definition of insanity, IMO.

Yes.

Edited June 15, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[Herr Barnack]

On 6/12/2022 at 9:03 AM, Ktsa5239 said:

It’s been 5 months since I’ve had the M11 and after slightly over 4000 shots, I’m absolutely loving it. And to me the M11 was a bigger jump from the M10R than when I went from the M10 to M10R.

Yes there are some firmware issues but the colours, the ability to crop, the new metering, the lighter weight, the amazing battery life and the 64 iso plus electronic shutter allowing me to shoot my noctilux at bright daylight. I took the M10R out several times and missed the M11 every time. I guess im ready to part with the M10R.

I took this shot handheld and the iso performance was awesome allowing for enough shutter speed to not have visible motion blur even when printed to A2 size.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

@Ktsa5239  This image is simply stunning!  Well done!

If I may ask, what city is this?

[setuporg]

23 minutes ago, Herr Barnack said:

I am still mystified as to why people who have never touched an M11 or made even one shutter click with it continue to bash what many are calling Leica's best digital M ever.

Don't know who those people are, if you read what I wrote, you know that I tried M11 at launch and brought home a card full of images.  Some snaky electronic shutter ones.  I've not liked the sound of the shutter, and I didn't see much improvement over M10-R in image quality.  That's where it stands still.  For my needs, M10-R is absolutely sufficient.

Also, off topically, totally agree with Gordon:

On 6/13/2022 at 1:54 PM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I prefer the lesser X1D for the following reasons.

1. It has sensational ergonomics. Best camera in the hand, ever.

Looking forward to X2D!

[scroy]

My M11+35APO has been my walk-around almost since I bought it. The battery life and the dynamic range improvement have been very welcome changes.

Only negative for me is the lack of availability of M11 half-cases. 🧐

 

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[M11 for me]

vor 6 Minuten schrieb setuporg:

Don't know who those people are, if you read what I wrote, you know that I tried M11 at launch and brought home a card full of images.   I've not liked the sound of the shutter

🥵