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What after M11 (Stefan Daniel's interview)


SrMi

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Not a word about crop formats. Aside from medium format, the market seen by Leica is divided into full frame, for pros and enthusiasts, and smartphones for casual photogs.

« today's situation (...) is also relatively stable in which mirrorless full-frame segment is growing rapidly (whereas) the development at that time with the digital compact cameras went up at breakneck speed and then again as well fast down. It follows that photography is aimed at the photo enthusiasts and professionals turns, while the casual photographer who used to buy a compact camera were content with the photo and video functions in smartphones today. »

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My thoughts:

  • M stands for rangefinder, true, but rangefinder does not stand for OVF.  You could have a rangefinder without an OVF.
  • After experiencing EVF on the SL2, it's quiet clear to me that an EVF is far superior than an OVF.
  • With high-performing lenses, an OVF can not help you focus as accurately as an EVF can, specially wide open.
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4 hours ago, SrMi said:

... it isn't ruled out that the image stabilizer could be integrated into the M at some point, for example, if we would do without the mechanical shutter and so the necessary space would be available again. 

 

Even more strongly stated… he wanted IBIS in M11, but space was the constraint. 
 

Jeff

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vor 12 Minuten schrieb MrFriendly:

it's quiet clear to me that an EVF is far superior than an OVF.

You are right in many aspects. But the OVF has its advantages too. It is different, many like it therefor. And it is a monitor.

vor 15 Minuten schrieb MrFriendly:

With high-performing lenses, an OVF can not help you focus as accurately as an EVF can, specially wide open.

This is certainly not true for wideangle lenses. And for other lenses the OVF is accurate enough - even for my Noctilux 0,95. 

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I understand the advantages of an EVF (and agree that it is the future - the pros outweigh the cons for a truly versatile system), but I would never want one in an M. In fact, apart from focusing manual glass I still miss the OVF in my old 5Diii compared to the EVF in my SL 601. EVFs feel very disconnected for me. 

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If the M12 incorporates IS and a video function, I will not buy it.

An M12 for monochrome only, without a screen, I will be in the queue at my Friendly Local Dealer.

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2 hours ago, MrFriendly said:

M stands for rangefinder, true, but rangefinder does not stand for OVF.  You could have a rangefinder without an OVF

Yes, you could put a FOFER (that was the type of rangefinder for the Leica Standard, which had no inbuilt rangefinder) in the hotshoe of a Q - though it would be useless. You only need a rangefinder if you have an optical finder. 

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3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Even more strongly stated… he wanted IBIS in M11, but space was the constraint. 
 

Jeff

It seems that we need to have a stacked sensor (fast readout) that can eliminate a mechanical shutter in order to have IBIS.

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« As the M10 came out, we considered it the perfect M, which now was supposed to be further optimized. » 

When I use my M10M, this is exactly what I think :) , still today. I don’t think I’d need anything else, in B&W, than the M10M.

In color, there is maybe more space to improve, but for my use, I don’t see the need for IBIS, as I shoot mainly moving subjects (a lot of pics of toddlers!) : shutter speed and high ISO is the better answer !

 

Didier 

 

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 IBIS, EVF, what else? built in handgrips too? :D

more lighter body? move to all magnesium? gone the fancy baseplate... now some ppl trying to move sony to wetzlar 

stop craving for M, go with the SL, the m ecosystem is on the verge of losing its identity 

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14 minutes ago, jakontil said:

 IBIS, EVF, what else? built in handgrips too? :D

more lighter body? move to all magnesium? gone the fancy baseplate... now some ppl trying to move sony to wetzlar 

stop craving for M, go with the SL, the m ecosystem is on the verge of losing its identity 

Agree  

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Taste is difference.

  • I dont really miss the video function but I would like to have it and see it as a real benefit. I also dont see how it does impact those people, who do not want to use it.
  • Viewfinder - the optical rangefinder is the main reason I shoot Leica M; EVF I only need for long or ultrawide lenses.
  • IBIS-would be nice
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It all boils down to a balance act for Leica that is becoming more and more complicated. How can the M-system stay “modern” enough to be seen as a relevant, high quality system of cameras and lenses, and stay - at the same time - as conservative as possible regarding the die-hard fans?

The M is coming from a more or less mechanical age while almost all modern technical products are based on microelectronics and software. Leica will either vanish into obscurity if holding too tight on tradition or scare away some of their customers if they incorporate more and more modern technology.

To keep at least some kind of balance is a challenging task!

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vor 5 Stunden schrieb m410:

M12 = Q3 + interchangeable lens.  

Actually, hope not...

. . . Q3 but with OVF plus Visoflex and without AF lenses. And as we read IBIS will come with fast readout sensors. Those sensors exist already.

I would indeed go for it. 

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vor 4 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

It seems that we need to have a stacked sensor (fast readout) that can eliminate a mechanical shutter in order to have IBIS.

Exactly. And this is on the market already and no reason why the future M will not have it. As a consequence there will be M with IBIS.

Edited by M11 for me
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23 minutes ago, Knipsknecht said:

To keep at least some kind of balance is a challenging task!

Yes but aside from the lack of IBIS, the M11 succeeds IMHO. When shooting at 1/2f or faster shutter speeds it has never been so easy to take high quality photos with an M camera. An M12 with global shutter and IBIS could well be the perfect rangefinder.

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb didier:

« As the M10 came out, we considered it the perfect M, which now was supposed to be further optimized. » 

When I use my M10M, this is exactly what I think :) , still today. I don’t think I’d need anything else, in B&W, than the M10M.

In color, there is maybe more space to improve, but for my use, I don’t see the need for IBIS, as I shoot mainly moving subjects (a lot of pics of toddlers!) : shutter speed and high ISO is the better answer !

 

Didier 

 

Good that you formulate "I do not think that . . .".

In reality things are different 😀

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