SL2-S for Filmmaking?

[Santos]

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On 1/16/2023 at 12:28 PM, PANGAEAmedia said:

I'm using the SL2-S for small productions and I love it. With the 8Sinn Cage, 2 Handles, Wireless Focus, Atomos Ninja V, you can work pretty smoothly. I recently filmed a Documentary in Tanzania.  

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Wow I'd like to reach your level one day. Beautiful Stills.

[OleBe]

@PANGAEAmedia Amazing stills! Thanks for sharing.  

 

FYI: The workflow in FCPX is as well not too difficult for consistently good results.

 

Database setting: Wide Gamut 

Project setting: Rec709 (usually what has to be delivered)

Add a custom LUT with the Leica L-log to Rec709 

Input setting: Rec. 2020

Output setting: Rec. 709

 

Color correction tools (like color wheels, curves etc.) which need to have an effect on the whole dynamic range of the log file need to be placed in front of the custom LUT Rec709 conversion. Grading tools (like grain effects, vignette or even color wheels to give the whole clip a certain color look) can be applied after the Rec709 conversion custom LUT.

If you keep this in mind, you can work easily with the files and very important consistently.  

 

 

 

[jonnyboy]

So, I have to shoot an event this week and I will be using the SL2-S coupled with a Sony FX3.
When the footages will be imported in Premiere, should I create 2 separate Projects (1 in REC2020 for the Leica, one in REC709 for the Sony), grade them individually and then edit them together in a master Project?
 

[Photoworks]

2 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

So, I have to shoot an event this week and I will be using the SL2-S coupled with a Sony FX3.
When the footages will be imported in Premiere, should I create 2 separate Projects (1 in REC2020 for the Leica, one in REC709 for the Sony), grade them individually and then edit them together in a master Project?
 

I would setup a HDR timeline color managed with output view of Rec709.

Import both file and say do not color manage, and then apply the correct color space transform to Sony and Leica.

That should take care of it. I do this in davinci resolve and it works well. I have not touch premiere in sometime but the concept should be similar.

Why do you say Sony in Rec709? are you not shooting in S-log?

[jonnyboy]

11 minutes ago, Photoworks said:

I would setup a HDR timeline color managed with output view of Rec709.

Import both file and say do not color manage, and then apply the correct color space transform to Sony and Leica.

That should take care of it. I do this in davinci resolve and it works well. I have not touch premiere in sometime but the concept should be similar.

Why do you say Sony in Rec709? are you not shooting in S-log?

Thanks, that helps.

Yes my bad I shoot Log in Sony but I understood it's quite different than the Leica's one?

[Photoworks]

21 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

Thanks, that helps.

Yes my bad I shoot Log in Sony but I understood it's quite different than the Leica's one?

That is why an IDT is useful , it make everything look normal and you can say editing in normal colors 

[jonnyboy]

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I've been using the SL2-S for the last couple of days to capture an event, stuck on a tripod capturing 1.30h recordings. I'm quite happy with the whole workability and switching off the LCD and monitor only via external hdmi doesnt drain the battery that much. I wish Leica would allow to Magnify whilst recording to check critical focus (can't always have an external monitor!) I think this should be quite essential and hopefully they will solve it with some of the next FW.

Importing the footages in Adobe Premiere, I set the color space for the clip:

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and then the sequence it's standard:

 

I'm not a pixel peeper but it looks good to me in terms of color accuracy - obviously, basic additional grade needed.

Do let me know if you spot anything wrong - thanks!

[hansvons]

1 hour ago, jonnyboy said:

I'm not a pixel peeper but it looks good to me in terms of color accuracy - obviously, basic additional grade needed.

Choosing Rec2020 as media colour space is the right idea. But I wouldn't use the Natural_Rec2020 LUT as L-log; being a 10Bit log, it is relatively mild and easy to grade off. The LUT, however, adds contrast, and you will lose the information you might want to use in your grades. But I see the benefit in the editing process because the footage looks "right" when editing your film. But when you come to the finishing process, you could turn off the LUT and grade the untouched video material.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

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Hallo,

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[jonnyboy]

Okay I was shooting some interviews yesterday with the SL2-S and I noticed the audio coming through has a little lag through the headphones....did anyone noticed that or is it just my camera? I tried to plug both into the camera body and also into the external monitor, same results.
Slightly annoying...the lag is during the live feed....it's less than a second but still noticeable!

[deonvnzl]

@jonnyboythat is the same for me. 
I also find the preamps to be incredibly noisy - even when set to their lowest and boosting the output on something like the Sennheiser MKE440 I would deem it to be unusable. 

The image is pretty amazing though - if you manage the rec2020 thing properly. 

I filmed this project on the SL2-S and some Leica R lenses. I also had the Laowa 12mm and an 18mm superspeed. (there are a handful of water shots from a komodo and gopro, dv cam and drone) 

 

[jonnyboy]

16 hours ago, deonvnzl said:

@jonnyboythat is the same for me. 
I also find the preamps to be incredibly noisy - even when set to their lowest and boosting the output on something like the Sennheiser MKE440 I would deem it to be unusable. 

The image is pretty amazing though - if you manage the rec2020 thing properly. 

I filmed this project on the SL2-S and some Leica R lenses. I also had the Laowa 12mm and an 18mm superspeed. (there are a handful of water shots from a komodo and gopro, dv cam and drone) 

Well, I started thinking to go back to the Store and see if my camera was faulty! But if you noticed this as well, I guess it's something they must fix. If you don't shoot interview is alright and I guess you won't notice as much but it's proper annoying once you start recording some audio. Leica should address this asap, it's quite unacceptable they marketed this as a "cinema camera" but with these kind of flaws!

What an incredible piece you shot! SO GOOD. Can I ask you what made you guys decide to go for an SL2-s for this one?

[hansvons]

16 hours ago, deonvnzl said:

I also find the preamps to be incredibly noisy - even when set to their lowest and boosting the output on something like the Sennheiser MKE440 I would deem it to be unusable. 

A remarkable piece of film!

For sure, the SL2-S isn't a proper sound recording device. In small-crew mode, and that happens these days more than ever (and I love it!), I use Tentacles with lavs or on the boom with a Schoeps. If the sound isn't first class, I use iZotope RX, which is by far the best sound restoration tool in the industry.

 

16 hours ago, deonvnzl said:

The image is pretty amazing though - if you manage the rec2020 thing properly. 

Can't agree more. I owned an Epic Dragon. For various reasons, the SL2-S became its successor, a perfect fit. I even sold my set of Super Speeds and acquired a set of R-primes. In many ways a big win.  How do you think fares the Leica compared with the Komodo? 

[hansvons]

20 minutes ago, jonnyboy said:

it's quite unacceptable they marketed this as a "cinema camera" but with these kind of flaws!

Well, real cinema cameras don't record any sound

[Stuart Richardson]

As a stills person, it is great to see how incredible some of the work is that has been done on the SL cameras. I occasionally use video for art pieces, by I primarily treat them as moving photographs. As such, I have been mostly ok without using log as long as the lighting conditions have allowed for it. But the film above, the work in Tanzania and the older piece of the original SL at night are particularly inspiring in terms of what professionals are getting out of the SL cameras. Nice to know, as always, that the equipment is way better than you are!

[deonvnzl]

On 2/27/2023 at 2:45 PM, jonnyboy said:

Well, I started thinking to go back to the Store and see if my camera was faulty! But if you noticed this as well, I guess it's something they must fix. If you don't shoot interview is alright and I guess you won't notice as much but it's proper annoying once you start recording some audio. Leica should address this asap, it's quite unacceptable they marketed this as a "cinema camera" but with these kind of flaws!

What an incredible piece you shot! SO GOOD. Can I ask you what made you guys decide to go for an SL2-s for this one?

The short answer is that we couldn’t afford anything else. I own the SL2S so in terms of production it was ‘free’. Panavision would have been able to help out with an A7SII but I think the Leica is a much better camera.

Practically speaking I never really entertained the idea of bigger cameras like fx series or even reds and alexas as it would just become unmanageable. I was wrangling all the data and had to stay on top of batteries as well.

Creatively, I really wanted to be able to use the DJI RS2 dynamically and anything bigger than a mirrorless becomes problematic in that context too.
In terms of kit, I had managed to make it all fit in two backpacks with additional accessories in myself and the director's check-in bags.

I have been very pleased with the look out of the SL2S. The images have very little chromatic noise and it feels very natural and rolls off smoothly. In terms of dynamic range I can tell that it doesn't have all the highlight stops of the Alexa for example and I shot it side by side with the Gemini a bunch of times and it definitely didn't match the detail and range in the shadows. In terms of exposing the camera appropriately within its limitations, I am very happy with the image. I have sung this camera's praises to so many people as I've used it as my personal stills camera since release and have, almost by accident, used it as a B camera on commercial work and for passion work (like in this case) for well over 50 shoot days now.  My opinion of it as a dedicated cinema camera is still that it is likely outclassed by Sony's current offerings and the S1H. I haven't really used any other mirrorless cameras but I imagine that all the cameras released in the last 2 years produce images that are much the same and there seems to be more to be had for comparable money with those other manufacturers.

My primary gripes with the camera for 'cinema' use are that it doesn't do any off-speed stuff slower than 23.98fps, ie. 12fps, 5fps etc.
The rolling shutter in Full Frame is also pretty apparent and it crops into the sensor to achieve 50fps in 4k.
There are some 100fps 1080p clips sprinkled into this film too and in hindsight I might not have shot that so much as it is riddled with aliasing and noise. 
The sensor is also a nightmare to keep clean, especially when you're somewhere as dusty as Dakar!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Kristofferpaulsen]

On 6/7/2022 at 1:01 AM, Slender said:

You haven't looked to the right place:

 

 

Hey i know that guy!! I last shot him on a Canon 5dmkiv. Ha. 

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[jonnyboy]

On 2/28/2023 at 5:25 PM, deonvnzl said:

I am very happy with the image. I have sung this camera's praises to so many people as I've used it as my personal stills camera since release and have, almost by accident, used it as a B camera on commercial work and for passion work (like in this case) for well over 50 shoot days now.  My opinion of it as a dedicated cinema camera is still that it is likely outclassed by Sony's current offerings and the S1H. 

My primary gripes with the camera for 'cinema' use are that it doesn't do any off-speed stuff slower than 23.98fps, ie. 12fps, 5fps etc.
The rolling shutter in Full Frame is also pretty apparent and it crops into the sensor to achieve 50fps in 4k.
There are some 100fps 1080p clips sprinkled into this film too and in hindsight I might not have shot that so much as it is riddled with aliasing and noise. 
The sensor is also a nightmare to keep clean, especially when you're somewhere as dusty as Dakar!

Thanks for the insight. I think what you guys produced it's outstanding (both in production and post).
I got an SL2-S end of last year as I needed something small to pair with my A7SIII with 10bits. I still don't wrap my head around it, I enjoy working with it but when I shoot next to Sony I actually get a better output from the A7s III. But I start thinking it may be because I'm using Premiere for editing (clip set to rec 2020 etc)...I don't think Lumetri Color do justice to those files....maybe?
Did you graded your piece in Resolve, I'd imagine?

Sometime I think I should have saved a bit more and got an FX6....😶

[deonvnzl]

16 hours ago, jonnyboy said:

Thanks for the insight. I think what you guys produced it's outstanding (both in production and post).
I got an SL2-S end of last year as I needed something small to pair with my A7SIII with 10bits. I still don't wrap my head around it, I enjoy working with it but when I shoot next to Sony I actually get a better output from the A7s III. But I start thinking it may be because I'm using Premiere for editing (clip set to rec 2020 etc)...I don't think Lumetri Color do justice to those files....maybe?
Did you graded your piece in Resolve, I'd imagine?

Sometime I think I should have saved a bit more and got an FX6....😶

Yea, I imagine the A7SIII is much better than the sl2-s in its output but I think the sl2-s gets 'as near as makes no difference' for most things.  The Sony definitely wins outright in terms of 4k 50fps and rolling shutter performance.  Its the age-old case of the Sony being built specifically for video whereas the sl2-s is a camera produced by a luxury brand that happens to shoot decent video. 

Joseph, the colourist is one of the best in the world so we were in very good hands.  He does works in resolve as far as I know. 

 

[jonnyboy]

20 hours ago, deonvnzl said:

Joseph, the colourist is one of the best in the world so we were in very good hands.  He does works in resolve as far as I know. 

 

Ah! That definitely help! Sometime is easy to forget how important is to actually have a proper colourist working on the clips.... "oh I will just slap a lut".....

I will go down in Congo this summer and planning to bring the SL2-S as a b-cam/still camera, I can't wait to fill that sensor with tons of dust!