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SL2-S for Filmmaking?


jonnyboy

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As written elsewhere, Leica bases its L-Log on Rec2020 colour space which must be transformed to Rec709 in the end of the pipeline, if regular SDR video is the target colour space (which 99% of all displays are still today). If these relatively complex workflows are not fully understood, skin tones will turn out reddish and sky blue cyan, or the DR of the log encoding and larger colour space will be lost.
 

For convenience, Leica offers an HLG option that is somewhat of a compromise, offering the DR of HDR video in a video gamma curve and resulting in acceptable colours in Rec709. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

The DaVinci Resolve for iPad does not requirer the Studio version to edit the LOG files.

There are still function missing, but it is a nice start.

 

You do need Studio version to DCTL

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On 1/2/2023 at 11:47 AM, jonnyboy said:

For all the Premiere users, I stumbled across this a while ago, quite interesting...

 

This is a prime example of why YouTube has to be taken with tons of salt.

He seems to be a decent, humble guy with some experience with colour. He got himself a great camera, a good computer and the industry standard software Premiere Pro. But that does not mean all is bound to go well.

He’s trapped in the Rec709 vs Rec2020 colour space issue because he doesn’t understand the hidden issue at hand. He’s not to blame as Leica hides their L-Log white paper from the public somewhere on their website - and who reads manuals anyway?

L-Log does not work correctly in Rec709, as it shows right in the beginning when he presents an image with a reddish skin tone as he applies the Leica Natural LUT. 

Stating rightfully that he’s at a loss, he gives up on the LUT and starts fighting with the log files and the images’ contrasts with some grading tools and comes to a result he likes. 
 

Because he didn’t shoot poster child images in bright sunlight depicting people in colourful cloths but rather darker, obscure motives he did not recognise that the colour was still off and presented his findings as a solution to the public. 

If he had set up Premier Pro to Rec2020 from the outset, colour would be right and the whole video not a misleading endeavour. But he did not as 99% of Premier Pro users because most people want Rec709 video clips as this is today's standard. 

I have no experience with Premier Pro, but I’m sure it can be used colour-managed, meaning that footage is edited on a Rec2020 timeline but viewed/exported in the Rec709 colour space. That way, he had never felt the urge to produce this video.
 

 

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I think the Japanese gentleman is missing a step.

The super saturated red and dark image is an indication of double profiling. 
He probably imported material with color tag of log and PP already applied a correction in color management , and then applying a lut will result in double correction.
You can see that the Log material is already contrasty and not a flat as it should be in LOG.

Creating a Rec 709 timeline, rec 709 Colorspace and applying a Leica Lut N-rec 709 ( image 1) should result in similar color than Rec 2020 timeline, Rec2020 colorspace and Leica N-rec2020 Lut( image 2). 
You can see that skin tones are the same, contrast is the same, but you can a bit more saturation in the RGB colors on the Left, Blue-Green-Red-Yeallow-Magenta-Cyan.

He probably need to follow the color-management steps properly , or don't apply any and use the LUT

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1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

Creating a Rec 709 timeline, rec 709 Colorspace and applying a Leica Lut N-rec 709 ( image 1) should result in similar color than Rec 2020 timeline, Rec2020 colorspace and Leica N-rec2020 Lut( image 2). 

Yes, absolutely. But if you add Leica's Natural Rec709 LUTin the pipeline before the grading to make the footage look right from the onset (what most people are inclined to do), you will lose the Rec2020 colour space's DR, as Leica, unfortunately, added to the colour space transform a gamma curve to make the footage fit into Rec709 gamut plus adding some contrast for user convenience. However, the Natural Rec709 LUT makes much sense in-camera for evaluation while shooting.

A LUT that transforms Rec2020 to Rec709 leaving the gamma in its log state, would do the trick. Such LUTs can be bought or created with the Lattice app. But it's unnecessary, as a colour-managed workflow would take care of it.

Edited by hansvons
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1 hour ago, hansvons said:

Yes, absolutely. But if you add Leica's Natural Rec709 LUTin the pipeline before the grading to make the footage look right from the onset (what most people are inclined to do), you will lose the Rec2020 colour space's DR, as Leica, unfortunately, added to the colour space transform a gamma curve to make the footage fit into Rec709 gamut plus adding some contrast for user convenience. However, the Natural Rec709 LUT makes much sense in-camera for evaluation while shooting.

A LUT that transforms Rec2020 to Rec709 leaving the gamma in its log state, would do the trick. Such LUTs can be bought or created with the Lattice app. But it's unnecessary, as a colour-managed workflow would take care of it.

I think most people are confused or don't know all the turms of color space, color managed , transform ...

And that is the same issue the Youtube is experiencing.

Personally I like Davinci WG for my editing and a proper transform for my editing.

Just selecting Rec2020 timeline and saving that the LOG is Rec2020 is not enough because Leica middle gray is lower than aspected. Better to use a L-LOG transform
Using Leica LUT is probably simpler for everyone else if you are starting out.

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In DaVinci Resolve, you can get decent results with the following Color Management settings:
* Color science : DaVinciYRGB Color Managed
* Color processing mode: HDR DaVinci Wild Gamut Intermediate or HDR Rec.2020
* Output color space: Rec 709 Gamma2.4

I dream of a Leica Wide Gamut and Leica Log-C .... like Arri, for example. And why not an ACES option with IDT and ODT in Leica style... but nothing for the moment! 

Have you tried a CST/ColorSpaceTransform node with Arri Wide Gamut 3 and Arri log-C3?? sometimes it works pretty well ....

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Am 1.6.2022 um 13:53 schrieb jonnyboy:

I just wanted to hear your thoughts about the SL2-S for professional filmmaking - anyone in here using it?

When it comes to run-n-gun videos, I shoot with my Sony A7s 3 which sometimes I pair with my old body Sony A7 III. I'd love to bring a bit of the Leica look/workflow into my videos so my questions are:

-What's the overheating situation? Let's say I want to use it as a B-Cam for an event, can I shoot for 1 or 2h straight?

-I don't know what's the current firmware situations, I'm sure it shoots 4K at 25fps without cropping - does it have any cropping when doing slowmotion? Does it crop at 4K 60?

Thanks!

I'm using the SL2-S for small productions and I love it. With the 8Sinn Cage, 2 Handles, Wireless Focus, Atomos Ninja V, you can work pretty smoothly. I recently filmed a Documentary in Tanzania.  

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vor 1 Minute schrieb PANGAEAmedia:

I'm using the SL2-S for small productions and I love it. With the 8Sinn Cage, 2 Handles, Wireless Focus, Atomos Ninja V, you can work pretty smoothly. I recently filmed a Documentary in Tanzania. 

Technical Information:

I filmed in L-Log used a Vario ND FIlter von Peter McKinnen 6-9Stops so I still can film with open Sensor. 

Used Cinemooded Leica R Lenses. My Monitor was always set to preview L-Log and the LUT, so I get the right exposure.

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IMG_0391.heic

Edited by PANGAEAmedia
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Yeah I wasn't sure either of that post process without LUT but I found it quite interesting...

I'm a Premiere user, so far I've been kind of pleased with the footages I got from my SL2-S although I'm realising I've worked on a REC709 comp. I will run a test later on and set it to REC2020 and see the output. It can become a bit problematic when you trying to also have REC709 footages on the same timeline?!

 

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3 hours ago, PANGAEAmedia said:

I'm using the SL2-S for small productions and I love it. With the 8Sinn Cage, 2 Handles, Wireless Focus, Atomos Ninja V, you can work pretty smoothly. I recently filmed a Documentary in Tanzania.  

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Looking great. I don't have a cage I noticed it can be a bit tricky to go handheld when using M lenses. 35mm is kind of alright but you start feeling too shakey when using 50.
Do you use L-mount when you go handheld?
Also, the weird positioning of the thread mount towards the left it makes it a bit complicated to mount it on a gimbal....

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vor 29 Minuten schrieb jonnyboy:

 

Looking great. I don't have a cage I noticed it can be a bit tricky to go handheld when using M lenses. 35mm is kind of alright but you start feeling too shakey when using 50.
Do you use L-mount when you go handheld?
Also, the weird positioning of the thread mount towards the left it makes it a bit complicated to mount it on a gimbal....

Actually I filmed everything handheld, that's why the wireless focus comes in very handy. When I use PL Lenses I work with an easyrig minimax but for now that system works for me just fine. I never tried it on a gimbal, will try it and see if it's a good fit. :)IMG_0391.heic

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I took my first foray into anamorphic lenses with the SL2-S (as well an old Lumix S5 as b-cam) and am loving this different look. Compared to spherical lenses, I found the Sirui 1.6x anamorphic lenses the most irksome when paired with the SL2-s sensor because of its lack of ibis support with anamorphic lenses. Since the S5 specifically has native anamorphic settings, I can only hope there is some support from Leica to also have anamorphic options.

All in all, it was very natural to use this affordable anamorphic set with the SL2-S body– though if you are only used to the typical small size of m-glass, this set may come as a heavy surprise ;)

 

 

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vor 1 Minute schrieb Aaron Daniel:

I took my first foray into anamorphic lenses with the SL2-S (as well an old Lumix S5 as b-cam) and am loving this different look. Compared to spherical lenses, I found the Sirui 1.6x anamorphic lenses the most irksome when paired with the SL2-s sensor because of its lack of ibis support with anamorphic lenses. Since the S5 specifically has native anamorphic settings, I can only hope there is some support from Leica to also have anamorphic options.

All in all, it was very natural to use this affordable anamorphic set with the SL2-S body– though if you are only used to the typical small size of m-glass, this set may come as a heavy surprise ;)

 

 

if you have the Atomos Ninja, then you can easily desqueeze. Take a look here:

 

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3 minutes ago, PANGAEAmedia said:

if you have the Atomos Ninja, then you can easily desqueeze. Take a look here:

 

Ahh yes, my apologies, I should have mentioned I was using the Ninja V for both desqueeze monitoring and recording :) 

It is the IBIS that gets wonky with anamorphic lenses because the sensor cannot interpret the squeeze factor of light. As the S5ii(x) begins to release, I do have some sort of hope for firmware updates in this regard.

Here is a recent photo of my setup on site:

 

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I'm new to shooting videos but I tried to Setup a Profile that I can easily edit without going into Colors (Just tipping my toes). The first is an interview style using the Noctilux with SL2S standard Profile (More Action at the end with the reveal of the Painting). The Second is a Reel for Instagram using the same (4k/60p 500mbps which I have no idea what it means Lol) just using a Vivid Color Profile instead of Natural. Apologies my first two Videos Ever.

Noctilux F1.2 Classic (Audio might be bad just got a better Mic):

https://youtu.be/x4eugyNZDmk

 

Zeiss 15mm F2.8 (Cropped to Oblivion)

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cm8guHkBjVO/?igshid=OGQ2MjdiOTE=

I'm new so any sources might help. I'll go deep reading this thread instead of skimming to learn more.

 

Sanctus.

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