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How compatible are ALPA lenses …


Alberti

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I can get a spare Alpa from my sister. 

I’ll have to buy the RF-coupled adapter. Metabones looks good. It is always mentioned in the context of a 50mm lens.

Question: will it also provide RF coupling for other lenses

- such as 35mm (e.g. Old Delft for Alpa 38/3,5 Alfimar) or a 60mm lens? These have the capability probably to couple with the hybid RF mode of the camera, so these must have a converted thread for that.

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Hello Alberti,

Alpa (Pignons, S.A.) bodies have a flange to film/sensor distance of 37.8 mm

Leica M bodies are 27.8 mm.

That means that the lens needs an appropriate extension tube of 10 mm, or less, in order to have infinity focus using an Alpa mount lens on a Leica M body.

You need an "Alpa Lens" to "Leica M"  Body adapter.

I am pretty sure that you can get 1 of these, or at least an "Alpa Lens" to "Leica Thread Body" adapter, from someone like Novoflex, etc. You can use the "Leica Thread Body" version on a Leica M body with a "Leica Thread Lens" to "Leica M Body" adapter engraved for any lens or lens combination.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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I have a couple of Alpa lenses that I use on my Leica, Sony, and Sigma fp cameras. They are the 24mm f 3.5 Angenieux Black, the 40mm f 2.8 Makro Kilar and the 50mm f 1.9 Macro Switar. I do have the Alpa to M mount adp, and the only lens of the three I own that will couple to the RF of the Leica is the 50mm f 1.9 Kern Macro Switar. As Alpa did not use that rf focusing on their later camera models ie the 6C, 9d, 10d and the 11 series cameras did not have a rf.

I think the last Alpa that had a rf and SLR finder was the Alpa 8b, there were two seperate viewfinders and the rf was a vertical rf. Plus the 50mm f 1.9 Kern Macro Switar is the only one of the three lenses that has a rf cam on the back of the lens.

Here's a link to someone selling a Alpa 8b where you can see the two rf windows on the left side of the camera body. I have nothing to do with this store that is selling the camera and lens....

https://kamerastore.com/products/alpa-reflex-model-8b-50mm-f1-8-kern-switar-ar-2?variant=41288436973766&currency=EUR&utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Kamerastore.com&utm_content=Alpa Reflex Model 8b %2B 50mm f1.8 Kern Switar AR&gclid=CjwKCAjwyryUBhBSEiwAGN5OCLruHsOopn9MMC9TXCLeYwy43NJ5BwKKuCRyQmoNUmTDdpj1BwzL5RoC6C8QAvD_BwE

Edited by agfa100
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I have an Alpa 7 with Kern Switar 50mm f1.8 (one of the early apochromatic lenses)

I use a Kipon Alpa-L39 adaptor - see Kern Switar with my iiif

very veratile combo as I can use this lens on LTM & M cameras

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Thanks, the Kamera Store has nice stuff.

what confuses me is that these older models have a single window for the non-reflex viewfinder, the window on the right. So I get the impression it is not a 'range-finder' with a moving focus spot - just a finder window like the old Leica III had.

Metabones has an adapter that has a RF coupling, so there must be some base on the camera-side of the lens that moves backwards and forwards with the helicoid movement.

And if one lens (the 50mm Switar) does have an accurate RF coupling  , others especially older lenses , should too. But they had a strange line up of lenses available, like 35, 38, 40 and so on.  Great with the reflex house but confusion for the RF mind... 😮

I must say the lens looks strange but the results should be great.

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Now that is smart. Like those stand-alone vertical distance meters. An example of - what you do not know you will never see.  Now I also see the partially reflective mirror at the top window.

Confusing for those holding the lens in a wrong way (my wife tends to block the M rangefinder window - but she can focus better than I though.)

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Edited by Alberti
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On 5/26/2022 at 3:37 PM, romualdo said:

I have an Alpa 7 with Kern Switar 50mm f1.8 (one of the early apochromatic lenses)

I use a Kipon Alpa-L39 adaptor - see Kern Switar with my iiif

very veratile combo as I can use this lens on LTM & M cameras

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

It fits snug. The information about the adapters is scarce, sellers will say 'automated things' such as 'no ROM coupling' but don't know we are the lost generation.

So: is this your adapter?   [I went ahead and bought it anyway. And I'll be happily surprised if the ring is in the box 😁]

And do the internals give RF coupling on the IIIf?   (here some fancy art director threw in a LTM to M adapter just to confuse those fuzzy buyers)

 

Edited by Alberti
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Well I have the Alpa to M mount adp but yes it looks like that one, and it should match up with the rf cam in the L-39 cameras once you remove the L-39 to M adp that this one has on it. Have fun with it when it shows up.

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22 hours ago, Alberti said:

It fits snug. The information about the adapters is scarce, sellers will say 'automated things' such as 'no ROM coupling' but don't know we are the lost generation.

So: is this your adapter?   [I went ahead and bought it anyway. And I'll be happily surprised if the ring is in the box 😁]

And do the internals give RF coupling on the IIIf?   (here some fancy art director threw in a LTM to M adapter just to confuse those fuzzy buyers)

 

Yes, that's my adapter but it never came with the LTM to M adapter that you see in the pics - it just has the LTM (screw thread)

it does rangefinder couple with all of my LTM cameras - bloody expensive item though IMHO

Unfortunately it's the only available version for LTM cameras

I presume you saw my contribution (re adjusting the adapter) in a previous thread

 

Edited by romualdo
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Yes I saw the easy handling of the back of the lens helix. Gorgeous.

By the way, when tweaking the Jupiter-3 lenses I found out that just relubing them brought focus back without turning (re-adjusting) anything. Over time the helix might get stuck in a certain position with the grease getting hard and inflexible.

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This is the adapter I bought. It seems to have the RF coupling cam: the ring on the top is pushed down by the lens, and linearly it is then transferred.

I note the movement is not up to Leica standard: I can feel the ridges the CNC machine made when cutting the form of the ring that transfers the focus information.  I can't add some oil of course  🤔 and I'm worried it might not be very supple (sticking a bit at times). Anyway, time will tell as I do not have the lens yet. The silver Kipon adapter might be polished.

But it is a good start.

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So now wait for the grace that my relatives  send me their Alpa 🥰

The Switar promises to be such a sweetheart

Edited by Alberti
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On 5/26/2022 at 2:47 PM, agfa100 said:

I have a couple of Alpa lenses that I use on my Leica, Sony, and Sigma fp cameras. They are the 24mm f 3.5 Angenieux Black, the 40mm f 2.8 Makro Kilar and the 50mm f 1.9 Macro Switar. I do have the Alpa to M mount adp, and the only lens of the three I own that will couple to the RF of the Leica is the 50mm f 1.9 Kern Macro Switar. A

It surprises me,

as I would think that the cam must be universal, and that the for example Alfinor lenses used on the older Alnea bodies should have RF coupling or they were useless. Universal means: double helix for focussing for wider lenses - except with the 50mm such as the Switar that is a standard length, just like Leica.

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I believe the cam is universal, but if the lens does not have the cam it does not matter. Not many of the lenses have the rf cam, as per the Kamera store site they say only the 50, 90 and 135 have the selector for the rf. So does that mean only the 90 and 135mm lenses have the rf cam??? Since I have never seen any of those lenses I don't know.

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My father had a RF body where you had to manually select the frame (Voigtländer?) and I understand the Alpa does the same.

Methinks,  without the 35 frame a 35 lens would still be utilisable. Just like the 40mm Summicron-C uses the M-body 50 mm frame. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I had a look at a standard 50mm Switar like post #4 this week.

The RF was (un)adjusted with severe back focus - which could be remedied - but the lens in question was also in a very bad shape (much worse than described) with a severe white spot from fungus, and the diaphragm blades were a bit rusty and shiny metallic (great if you want low contrast 🥲 ) while the focus and aperture was very stiff (grease totally solidified). Their repairman or the shop owner had cleaned the lens, probably seen that this was a no go, and then off it went to the web shop, not even lubricating. I'm afraid the marvellous lens was out of adjustment by now too. Bad practice for a web shop.

So my appetite for an Alpa lens is low at the moment.

Back focus: focus on middle of lamp post; the camera in the corner is sort of sharp (the lens was mal-adjusted too, I think)

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And here the back of the Switar, where the white fungus damage spot is on the right (picture taken with a Killfitt):

The problem is of course that most gear has not been used for >30 years, stored in boxes.  So what comes out is not good.

The lenses built in Ukraine have much better survived storage. Like my Jupiter-3 and 8 KIEV lenses from the beginning of the sixties.

 

Edited by Alberti
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  • 4 months later...

If you read this again it's been awhile you have to "adjust" the adp cam to the body I started by setting the adp to stop focusing at inf. mine came with a "key" to do this but you can also use your fingers to move it. Don't write off the Kern macro switar, to me it's the grandfather of the apo summicron if you look at a lens diagram of the kern and compare to a apo summicron you can tell where the apo came from. Also Leitz bought Kern back in the mid to late 80's. It was to get a binocular contract if I remember as the Swiss had a law back then that the military had to buy in country products first for the military and Kern made great binoculars besides lenses and Leitz wanted to bid on the contract so they bought the company to get rid of the competition. And of course they then had all the intellectual property of Kern.

Edited by agfa100
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Ah, once I almost bought an alpa binocular when in Switzerland. It was the best one I had in hand, but I ended up with a smaller leica 8x20 😙

My sister had Alpa gear in the sixties - for het macro's of flowers. She promissed me her old Alpa, but it has not materialized yet in my post box.

Yes I also looked at the lens structure, and saw the similarities. How slow a company is in finding the room to recognize and acknowledge gems in bought intellectual capital. . .  The Alpa however has often requested APO lenses from suppliers; I read several smaller lenses have this characteristics, even some provided for the older LTM. Unfortunately, I can't find the link now with the table of lenses.

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