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Using Flash Triggers on the R5 not possible?


mbphotox

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I attended a workshop a couple weeks ago, topic "monochrome".
Since I had a roll of Acros 100 in the R5, I decided to bring it along. I took a couple window portraits (film is far from full) and even tried my luck with a softbox.

It was an Elinchrom light with wireless trigger.
 

I set the camera to A with shutter speed set to X and tried it a couple times, to no avail.  (siwtched mode to M too)

Back then I didn't want to take up too much time, so I just stashed the camera away.

 

Today, I decided to test it again, this time with my Yongnuo 560 flash trigger. It wouldn't work either.

When I then set the YN560 - IV speedlite on top of the camera and switched the flash to manual mode (not TX/RX, etc.) it would actually fire.
I don't know if it will be exposed correctly and I don't feel like waiting until the film is full. (Just shooting through a 15$ roll of Acros 100 is not what I want to do to get confirmation, haha)

 

So, my question is:
Do I need to use the cable connection to the wireless flash trigger if I want to be able to use a wireless flash system, or did I miss something else?

The wireless trigger worked perfectly fine with my now sold Nikon F2...



I would really love to be able to replicate some of the shots we got in the studio with the film camera at some point.

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I am not familiar with either of the flash triggers you mentioned, so forgive me if the questions I'm going to ask are too elemental.

What is the flash shoe configuration on the flash triggers?  Are they brand-specific, or just a single center contact?   The flash triggers I use are just a universal, dumb single central contact, so there's no communication between the camera body and flash as some of the more modern equipment has, but they work every time across the array of cameras I own.   If the two flash triggers require communication with the body to work properly, that may be the problem.

Please reply back if you get the troubleshooting done and figure out what the cause of the problem is.

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Huh.. that could be it. The triggers have 4 or 5 pins to make contact with the camera. (The camera has contacts for each one of those pins, I checked)

I didn't try my Godox XPro-Trigger (putting some batteries into a flash is a quick thing, but setting up a studio strobe not so much), but that one has the same number of pins as the others.

I also have some very rudimentary Yongnuo RF-603 II triggers, but they also have 5 pins..

Because the flash, a Yongnuo 560 IV has only one pin and it worked as intended.

 

So these TTL Pins are to be blamed, then?

 

I will check again with my other triggers. Maybe I only tried with the Nikon triggers and it's the Canon ones that would work with the Camera?

But that would still mean that I cannot use my Godox trigger (Nikon version)?

 

Unless it's possible to connect the camera via the flash sync cable to the trigger?

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Yes, it's my understanding that the pin-outs are proprietary...  a Nikon flash will not talk to a Canon, even though the pin locations may be the same, except in "manual" mode where the only pin that counts is the main center contact.   As you can see here ( I stole these images) the Leica R-series pin setup is identical to Nikon, but they're not interchangeable.  I have a Panasonic S1 (the camera from which the Leica SL2 was fashioned) and it has a different pin configuration yet from the Leica R bodies.   The Leica SL2 digital body will accept an Olympus flash (which I have and use with my Panny S1), but the flashes that will work on the R5 and R6.2 (which I also have) will NOT have TTL functionality with the SL2 or Panny S1.    Canon uses a five-pin setup, Nikon uses four, but even though they're in the same configuration as Leica R bodies, the pins are apparently wired for different purposes.   Unfortunately, the proprietary stuff has gotten in the way of using some really good stuf that could have otherwise been mixed and matched.

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Hey

Thanks for the answer.

If I remember correctly, the Canon triggers worked on Nikon cameras too.

I will try to figure out if there's a way to use the trigger with the other pins deactivated.

I mean, I don't need TTL at all, and I don't even have TTL flashes, they are all fully manual and set to manual mode too...
I just care for the camera to trigger my flashes. (That's why I was wondering if the sync cable could make this work?)

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7 hours ago, mbphotox said:

(That's why I was wondering if the sync cable could make this work?)

Probably so?   If the flash is on manual, it should trigger from a pc sync cord. 

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I mean, the flash triggers when it sits on the camera too, but I want to be able to use up to 4 flash units at once.

What I want is the camera to trigger the damned wireless flash trigger. 🥲

It's annoying that the camera doesn't trigger the flash if it has multiple contacts to communicate with the camera.. There's no option on the camera to set it to manual flash, though.
And the trigger isn't even TTL compatible. It only has these contacts so the camera wakes it up, I think.

I read over the information again and saw that the Nikon trigger is actually the one that works with any camera while the Canon one doesn't.

Will have to check again which one I used.

 

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I share your frustration.  Metz built the Leica flash units that worked on the R series.  Nikon isn't compatible, as I said, except in "manual" mode where the only thing you're asking the camera to do is trip the flash through the center contact.   The contacts just do different things between the two brands, so your Nikon stuff doesn't really "work with any camera."

That's why I've never bought brand-specific flash triggers.  I have one Olympus flash that does TTL with my Panasonic S1, and a Metz 45 CT-4 with a Leica R module for my R6.2, but everthing else I have are single-contact flashes;  Vivitar 258HVs.   My flash triggers are ancient and single-contact.

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Yeah, I get that.

But, as I said, the flash trigger can only do manual. It has no other functionality.

It has those 4 or 5 contact pins for no particular reason, other than for the camera to "wake up" the trigger, I guess.

 

I read in another thread that the SL and SL2 (digital) both work with either the XPRO-C and XPRO-N triggers from Godox, albeit not with TTL.

So, if the pin layout was this important, why does the digital SL not care which trigger it has on and still work?

And why can the R5 not do the same? :D

 

Will check if the Godox trigger ends up working after all. That would be the win I need, since I would want to shoot with my Godox studio flashes and not just speedlites.

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Just for reference, the SL and SL2 (and Panny S1) all conform to the 4/3ds Consortium's standards, which is why an Olympus FL-50R works with the TTL on my S1.  So any flash that will work with Olympus 4/3rds will work on them.   My Olympus flash does NOT work with my R6.2 except in manual mode either.  The pin-outs are just different.

Good luck with your trigger.  Keep us posted!

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30 minutes ago, hepcat said:

Just for reference, the SL and SL2 (and Panny S1) all conform to the 4/3ds Consortium's standards, which is why an Olympus FL-50R works with the TTL on my S1.  So any flash that will work with Olympus 4/3rds will work on them.   My Olympus flash does NOT work with my R6.2 except in manual mode either.  The pin-outs are just different.

Good luck with your trigger.  Keep us posted!

See, that's what I don't understand.

My flash triggers don't have anything other than "manual mode", because they don't support anything else. 🤨

You can repeat the same thing a dozen more times, but it won't change the fact that the camera isn't triggering my manual-only flash triggers, but can trigger my manual flashes when they are sitting on the camera.

That's why I asked what the PC-Sync cable would do. Would that be able to trigger the trigger to trigger the flash because the cable is simply "manual mode only" as well?


Will try with the Godox tomorrow. That one is a TTL trigger, but maybe I can somehow magically set it to Manual mode...

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Just so I'm being clear,  when I reference "manual mode" on the flashes, it means that they ignore everything but the electrical input on the single center contact.  In essence, it shuts off all communication with the camera whether the camera has the proper pins or not.


If your flash triggers have more pins than just the "dumb" center pin, they must communicate with the camera for SOMETHING.  And if the camera's pins aren't communicating that "something" then they're likely not going to work because the trigger is expecting some kind of signal that the camera can't provide.   They may be simple triggers as far as what they send to the receivers, and they may not be capable of sending TTL information,  but if they have more than one pin, and are camera-specific,  they must talk to the camera.

And yes, you may have more luck with just the pc cable as the trigger would only expect the single firing signal from there. 

Edited by hepcat
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Tried it with the Godox XPRO-N (i-TTL trigger for Nikon) and guess what? It simply worked..

 

The Godox flashes even come with a Sync cable (coaxial into a single jack) but unfortunately that doesn't fit into my Yongnuo triggers.

I mean, I'm happy that it works with the Godox and thus can fire my Studio lights, so that's a big win.

 

For speedlites, I could always use my Spotmatic, I guess. Just need to find some cash under the mattress to be able to afford a proper 85mm m42 lens. (Takumar, Fujinon, or Zeiss)

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19 hours ago, mbphotox said:

Tried it with the Godox XPRO-N (i-TTL trigger for Nikon) and guess what? It simply worked..

 

The Godox flashes even come with a Sync cable (coaxial into a single jack) but unfortunately that doesn't fit into my Yongnuo triggers.

I mean, I'm happy that it works with the Godox and thus can fire my Studio lights, so that's a big win.

 

For speedlites, I could always use my Spotmatic, I guess. Just need to find some cash under the mattress to be able to afford a proper 85mm m42 lens. (Takumar, Fujinon, or Zeiss)

Glad it worked for you!   No worries, M42 85mm lenses are cheaper than dirt and grow on trees.  Ok, I'm lying.   Ha ha ha!!!   Anyway, I'm glad it's worked out so far!

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I recently sold the SB800 I had so I couldn't test it, but I remembered I have a Vivitar Series 1 flash for Nikon with the four pins, so I tried it on the R6.2.  Lo and behold, it appears to work in TTL mode!!!  I haven't processed the film yet, so I can't confirm it, but it appears to have done TTL metering from the flash output.  So perhaps the R series bodies' flash pin configuration IS compatible with four pin Nikon flashes! 

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5 minutes ago, hepcat said:

I recently sold the SB800 I had so I couldn't test it, but I remembered I have a Vivitar Series 1 flash for Nikon with the four pins, so I tried it on the R6.2.  Lo and behold, it appears to work in TTL mode!!!  I haven't processed the film yet, so I can't confirm it, but it appears to have done TTL metering from the flash output.  So perhaps the R series bodies' flash pin configuration IS compatible with four pin Nikon flashes! 

That's crazy!
Don't know how TTL would work with the Godox wireless trigger.. I've never had a TTL flash in my life.
Will read up on that matter, to see if it would actually matter to the type of photography I want to do.

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