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Is it bad to want a lens just because of how it looks?


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12 hours ago, Summilux-asph said:

Well. Let’s compare it to the Leica 28f5.6 Summaron.... 

It’s sharper, doesn’t flare, don’t have to deal with whole stop apertures, and for only 18mm more in length you get a much more useful f2 aperture (the Summaron’s size goes away with the hood to prevent the flare and with the Ultron no hood is needed), focusing distance is 0.5m instead of 1m, vignetting is controlled better, actually the vignetting on the 28 Ultron II is better than on the 28 Summicron which is pretty awful (and the 28 Ultron II is smaller than the Summicron). 

I guess I’m just not into Chinese lenses. Japan, yes. China, nope. 

No; let's not.

You are comparing the 28mm f2 Voigtlander Ultron against the Leica Summaron; not against the TTA 28mm f5.6.

In addition you accept that the Ultron is bigger than the Summaron so how does the Ultron 'Beat' the Summaron - let alone the TTA - in terms of size? Unless 'Bigger = Better'.

I do have, as luck would have it, a 28mm f2 Voigtlander Ultron and the TTA 28mm f5.6 (as well as a 28mm f2.8 Elmarit ASPH) and would be happy to comment on the performance of any of those lenses because, through having used all of them, I do know what I'm talking about through personal experience rather than having to base my beliefs solely through internet chatter.

But believe what you like. The choice is yours and good luck with it!

:)

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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49 minutes ago, Summilux-asph said:

IMO, nothing beats the 28f2 Ultron II for size and IQ.

IYO that's perfectly fine by me but I happen to disagree with the majority of your conclusions and assumptions.

P.

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1 hour ago, Summilux-asph said:

since the Ultron needs no hood 

Oh dear. One of those...

As a long time Summaron user I can assure you the miniscule front element is so deeply recessed it never needs a hood. The supplied hood is a thing of beauty to be kept in the presentation case.

Just buy what you want, go take some pics and post them on the Forum.

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On 6/1/2022 at 5:17 AM, Summilux-asph said:

Well. Let’s compare it to the Leica 28f5.6 Summaron (the TTArtisan isn’t as good). 

It’s sharper, doesn’t flare, don’t have to deal with whole stop apertures, and for only 18mm more in length you get a much more useful f2 aperture (the Summaron’s size goes away with the hood to prevent the flare and with the Ultron no hood is needed), focusing distance is 0.5m instead of 1m, vignetting is controlled better, actually the vignetting on the 28 Ultron II is better than on the 28 Summicron which is pretty awful (and the 28 Ultron II is smaller than the Summicron).  

These tiny lenses are cool and all that, but for the size and IQ (at 28mm) I don’t think anything beats the 28 Ultron II, including the Summicron 28. 

Not to mention it’s $900 instead of $3,100  

I pass on any lens manufacturer that ships lenses with a tool so you can calibrate it yourself. 

I guess I’m just not into Chinese lenses. Japan, yes. China, nope. 

How's the focus on the Ultron? Is it whip fast (like my 28 Summicron and most of my older L lenses)? Or is there resistance? I hate resistance and have returned a number of more current Leica lenses for that reason. I do have to sell a Voigtlander APO 50mm first that I never used. Great build and image quality, but at the end of the day just preferred the handling of my Leica 50's (late Elmar and late pre-asph). 

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Nothing wrong with a good lens that also looks nice. Leica seem to understand that people want that.

I have one of those retro 50mm Summicron 50 Jahre lenses. I think it looks just as nice on a black camera, as on a chrome one. 

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I want a Nippon Kogaku W-NIKKOR-C 2.5cm f/4 LTM Lens  with finder.  To me, they just look cool. From a practical side it doesn’t fit well in my tool box since I have a 28mm and a 21mm SEM. Please, let’s not start debating the merits /differences of having 28-25-21mm lenses in your kit. I just think the 2.5 looks awesome. 

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On 5/31/2022 at 3:55 PM, pippy said:

Could you please explain in what way, exactly, the Voigtlander 28m f2 Ultron II beats the TTA in terms of size and IQ?...

CV beats them in corner IQ (link) but of course not size – summary seems to be the CV is one of the highest IQ 28mm M lenses ever made. My Leica 28 5.6 is extremely sharp in the center, but never tried the TTA version. Clearly the Leica and TTA 28 5.6 lenses are half the size of the CV, so no idea where they were coming from with that. (Regarding some other posts above, the Leica 28 5.6 does not need a hood, either.)

Edited by hdmesa
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Posted (edited)
On 6/1/2022 at 6:17 AM, Summilux-asph said:

Well. Let’s compare it to the Leica 28f5.6 Summaron (the TTArtisan isn’t as good). 

It’s sharper, doesn’t flare, don’t have to deal with whole stop apertures, and for only 18mm more in length you get a much more useful f2 aperture (the Summaron’s size goes away with the hood to prevent the flare and with the Ultron no hood is needed), focusing distance is 0.5m instead of 1m, vignetting is controlled better, actually the vignetting on the 28 Ultron II is better than on the 28 Summicron which is pretty awful (and the 28 Ultron II is smaller than the Summicron).  

These tiny lenses are cool and all that, but for the size and IQ (at 28mm) I don’t think anything beats the 28 Ultron II, including the Summicron 28. 

Not to mention it’s $900 instead of $3,100  

I pass on any lens manufacturer that ships lenses with a tool so you can calibrate it yourself. 

I guess I’m just not into Chinese lenses. Japan, yes. China, nope. 

I get no flare issues with the Leica 28 5.6 (current version). It has modern lens coatings and does pretty well considering what it is.

I think the problem was mentioning the 28 5.6 lenses in the same sentence with the Ultron. They're not the kind of lenses you decide between, one over the other. The 28 5.6 lenses are more for the nostalgia, user experience, small size, and the character of the vignetting at f/5.6. The Ultron is as close as we have right now to a 28mm APO M lens.

Edited by hdmesa
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I love the looks of Fat Elmar. Reminds me of me.

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6 hours ago, Summilux-asph said:

...For me a Summaron doesn’t add anything I don’t already have with the Ultron II...

I like how the 28 Summaron makes the M so small. Owning a 28 Summaron is certainly an emotive choice, IMO.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hdmesa said:

CV beats them in corner IQ (link) but of course not size – summary seems to be the CV is one of the highest IQ 28mm M lenses ever made. My Leica 28 5.6 is extremely sharp in the center, but never tried the TTA version...

Thanks for that, hdmesa, and in return here is a link to the 16-page thread which deals with the TTA;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326776-ttartisan-28mm-f56/#comments

I don't have any experience of using the Leica Summaron so cannot possibly comment on how it performs  but as part of the thread I did post a 100% crop (post #254) of the top-left corner from a snap to illustrate (IMO) the superb definition and (lack of any) vignetting with the TTA version of the Summaron. Here is the comment which accompanied the picture and the picture itself;

"IMX with this lens diffraction isn't remotely an issue at f11. Not at all. Sharpness is superb - even in the corners - and there is no (IMX) noticeable vignetting. FWIW here is a 100% crop from the absolute extreme top-left corner of an image shot (with same kit as before) at f11..."

As usual double-click to see image in reasonably high quality;

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Hope that might be of interest / use to anyone.

Philip.

Edited by pippy
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, pippy said:

Thanks for that, hdmesa, and in return here is a link to the 16-page thread which deals with the TTA;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326776-ttartisan-28mm-f56/#comments

I don't have any experience of using the Leica Summaron so cannot possibly comment on how it performs  but as part of the thread I did post a 100% crop (post #254) of the top-left corner from a snap to illustrate (IMO) the superb definition and (lack of any) vignetting with the TTA version of the Summaron. Here is the comment which accompanied the picture and the picture itself;

"IMX with this lens diffraction isn't remotely an issue at f11. Not at all. Sharpness is superb - even in the corners - and there is no (IMX) noticeable vignetting. FWIW here is a 100% crop from the absolute extreme top-left corner of an image shot (with same kit as before) at f11..."

As usual double-click to see image in reasonably high quality;

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Hope that might be of interest / use to anyone.

Philip.

Thank you, I've been interested in the black version that's supposed to be coming out soon. I'll give that thread a read. The Leica Summaron 28 5.6 gets a bit better in the corners at f/8 and a bit more at f/11, but it's never perfectly sharp in the corners – I'd say at f/8 it's about equal in the corners as the 28 Lux at f4.

 

1 hour ago, Summilux-asph said:

Definitely. I was just saying I wouldn’t consider a 28f5.6 for myself since I have the Ultron which is already tiny and an f2. Tiny and much more useful. 

Definitely a nostalgia buy. 
 

Speaking of the Summaron. Have you ever ran into this bubble type lens flare?

the TTArtisan is on the left. That one washes out completely with flare.  This is what I was talking about when I mentioned the hood (because TTArtisan copied that too from Leica, so the size difference goes away. You’re going to want the hood with the TTArtisan)

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For the OP I would say to consider the size of the lens with the hood on. 

I've never seen flare like that on the new Leica version. I know the original Leica version had interesting flare character, but the new one does not.

This is straight into the sun at f/8 with the new version. Sunstars are diffuse, but if I put the aperture between stops, the sunstars turn defined, which was an unexpected discovery – I like that I can choose to have defined sunstars or not.

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Edited this post to add another example without the sun being partially obstructed. I think this one was shot at f/5.6:

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Here is the unedited DNG exported directly to JPEG – just to show how dark the original DNG was and that the re-issue seems to have pretty good lens-contrast/tonal range:

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Edited by hdmesa
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On 5/20/2022 at 12:58 AM, madNbad said:

You need a Chiyoko (Rokkor) 2.8 45 mm for your tiny lens collection. Unfortunately, they were only made in chrome over brass. Bring the rattle can for a copy in black. No click stops as a bonus!

I've got something for you, 😁. This photo is from right when I got the lens. These days it has some nice, natural brassing as the chrome was completely removed before painting. 

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3 hours ago, Andy_Shields said:

I've got something for you, 😁. This photo is from right when I got the lens. These days it has some nice, natural brassing as the chrome was completely removed before painting. 

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Wow! It's a fun lens to use, even with the quirky controls. A favorite walking around lens and with no click stops, it was easy to pick a shutter speed then just turn the aperture ring until the correct exposure diode would light up in my M6 TTL. Thanks and have fun with it! 

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5 hours ago, Andy_Shields said:

I've got something for you, 😁. This photo is from right when I got the lens. These days it has some nice, natural brassing as the chrome was completely removed before painting. 

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Looks good in chrome as well.

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I'm seriously thinking about getting a Voigtlander 35mm f2.5 color Skoparon v11 p. Its tiny size appeals to me and it does look cute.

 

 

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7 hours ago, magixaxeman said:

I'm seriously thinking about getting a Voigtlander 35mm f2.5 color Skoparon v11 p. Its tiny size appeals to me and it does look cute.

 

 

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I had one of those for a short time, great lens and cheap as chips used. 
 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I just ordered the TTA 28 5.6 in black.  Could not resist the way it looks.  Already have the 28 Summicron v2, the CV 28 3.5 (fantastic lens!) and the Orion 15 28 f6 (super lens!).

If the TTA's performance is satisfactory (i.e. no weird optical issues, and it focuses at infinity at the hard stop) then I will most prob sell the Orion.  The only thing I don't like about the Orion is the way you have to reach inside the lens to change the aperture.

Of note - TTA clarified that they will only make a regular black paint version, not one that is pre-brassed.  That was just to show what it 'could' look like.

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The vignettes in summaron 28 mm, is actually the characteristic from the original lens i once read, the flare was oke though nothing special, my go to when travel and streetphoto though i lean more towards 50mm but i love the looks of summaron…

now seeing the black paint TT, whilst having lesser vignette which is why i like the summaron, i’d still probably buying it, because of the looks and brass black painted 

i have always a soft heart towards brass lenses

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