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Officially announced: discontinued!


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Posted (edited)

I see this in a slightly different perspective as a TL2 owner.

This memo is to Leica dealers, apparently, saying Leica is discontinuing the APS-C system and explaining why.  It doesn’t say “has discontinued” but “is discontinuing”.  For that reason, as the current production is sold out, the system will be supported for six years from the date of purchase.  I don’t see this as having anything to do with existing owners.

Let me explain - I bought my TL2 some years ago - don’t know, could find out, don’t care.  Why?  Because I don’t maintain an odometer or count-down clock on my camera gear.  Further, I cannot imagine Leica repairing some cameras because they’re relatively new while refusing to service or repair the same model because it was bought earlier.  Warranty, yes.  Paid repair, no.  That would be a very strange thing to do.

So, as I read the internal memo, it’s for new buyers of TL2/CL cameras.  If a dealer has a new CL in stock, Leica will support it for six years following purchase.  To my mind, that means they will start the count-down from the date the last CL/TL2 camera is sold by its dealer network (give or take).  I would expect Leica will support ANY Leica APS-C L-mount camera or lens until that time.

Guessing, and obviously there will be some latitude on the timing.  I can imagine Leica saying that all existing new stock will be assumed to have been sold within a period following delivery to the dealers, or some self-serving crap like that.  But, they will say “time is up”, support will end six years from now(ish).  If they’re supporting new(ish) cameras in five years, I’d be amazed if they refused to repair mine.

My cameras (except maybe the M-A) aren’t like cars - I don’t service them every year …

Edited by IkarusJohn
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1 minute ago, Kim Dahl said:

We can hope it is like that.  But that's not how it's written from Leica.  6 years from the date the product was purchased.

More exactly, if not precisely, "another 6 years".

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34 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

This memo is to Leica dealers, apparently, saying Leica is discontinuing the APS-C system and explaining why.

The memo is for Leica proper employee, not distributors. Because they are cited inside. So Leica kept everybody in the dark. 

The memo did not prepare for a future official discontinuation. But rather to the possibility of people asking about it. 
Apparently one employee did us a favour and leaked the memo. Thank you to him to let us know how Leica think poorly of us. 

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Posted (edited)

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42 minutes ago, Kim Dahl said:

We can hope it is like that.  But that's not how it's written from Leica.  6 years from the date the product was purchased.

In an internal memo giving  advice on how to respond to prospective buyers …

How realistic is it for Leica to have a tiered support programme, with on buyer getting support, and another not?  That seems extremely unlikely to me.

PS - We do have recent experience of Leica phasing out support.  When the M9 sensor cover glass corrosion first emerged, Leica waved their arms about saying “nothing to see here, move on”; they then did the reasonable thing saying they would replace sensors (at no cost for many) for a period; then, presumably once stocks of replacement sensors ran short, they put a time limit on the no cost replacement; finally, you could have the replacement done for a period at cost.  

Edited by IkarusJohn
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It seems to me the gist here is Leica is guarding their camera value while keeping potential buyers of the CL in the dark.  It’s pretty obvious they’re going to deplete the final stock then announce the discontinuation followed by the end of repair support. It’s really a shitty way of betraying customers that have invested thousands of dollars in a system and give them the finger as a farewell.

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Not sure if cameras and lenses are included in the “Right to Repair” laws but, if they are, then Leica’s mean intentions would be useless, since they will be forced to repair CLs, TL2s, TLs, Ts and lenses for a minimum of 10 years, at least in the EU:

 

https://www.euronews.com/2021/03/01/eu-law-requires-companies-to-fix-electronic-goods-for-up-to-10-years

 

 

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3 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I see this in a slightly different perspective as a TL2 owner.

This memo is to Leica dealers, apparently, saying Leica is discontinuing the APS-C system and explaining why.  It doesn’t say “has discontinued” but “is discontinuing”. 

 

Maybe read the letter again? Says discontinued. Gone. Done. No more. Finito!

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6 hours ago, Peter Wright said:

I’m not sure why everyone’s getting in a froth over this.  We had already surmised as much. Companies routinely discontinue product lines when it fits the strategy.  The statement is somewhat poorly worded and ambiguous.  I took it to mean that a customer buying a new CL in the future would have a guaranteed 6 years of repair-ability.  So someone getting a new CL in 2025 (assuming they can find such a thing, as production probably stopped some time back) will have support until 2031.  

In my case my CL is about 3 years old, and the statement does not say what I can expect.  It would be a mistake to assume that the company plans to refuse service after 2025.  That is not what they are saying.  I rather think Leica does not know the answer itself, but depending on demand, I could reasonably expect service for quite a few years to come.  But who knows?

My next camera will probably be a Q3, or just possibly an SL3 if the SL can shed most of its weight and bulk.

Somone here bought an 'new' M6 a dealer had stuck at the back of a shelf. So let's say you find a boxed new CL in 20 years are you really expecting Leica to provide 6 years service from then?

The letter states the lines have been discontinued so I would be pretty sure that the clock is already ticking on those 6 years. This is the same company who previously committed to providing back up for products for 10 years from being discontinued so does 6 years apply to all other discontinued models as well?

 

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4 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

Maybe read the letter again? Says discontinued. Gone. Done. No more. Finito!

Maby read the paper yet again? Says 'prompted to discontinue'. Also, the paper has been written by an undisclosed organisation for an undisclosed recipient. The wording is strikingly vague. It's just a collection of catch-phrases. It does not even have a proper letter head and the position of the red Leica logo is offset with respect to the text. Such a thing would never have left my office. The title of this thread is highly misleading as that paper does not offically announce anything at all. Even as a 'guideline for a response' it lacks luster. I think it's mere bait.

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6 minutes ago, pop said:

Maby read the paper yet again? Says 'prompted to discontinue'. Also, the paper has been written by an undisclosed organisation for an undisclosed recipient. The wording is strikingly vague. It's just a collection of catch-phrases. It does not even have a proper letter head and the position of the red Leica logo is offset with respect to the text. Such a thing would never have left my office. The title of this thread is highly misleading as that paper does not offically announce anything at all. Even as a 'guideline for a response' it lacks luster. I think it's mere bait.

The Chinese text almost feels like it was written by a translation app, not by a Chinese speaking person

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11 minutes ago, pop said:

Maby read the paper yet again? Says 'prompted to discontinue'. Also, the paper has been written by an undisclosed organisation for an undisclosed recipient. The wording is strikingly vague. It's just a collection of catch-phrases. It does not even have a proper letter head and the position of the red Leica logo is offset with respect to the text. Such a thing would never have left my office. The title of this thread is highly misleading as that paper does not offically announce anything at all. Even as a 'guideline for a response' it lacks luster. I think it's mere bait.

 

Well if it's fake news I'm sure someone from Leica will be along to reassure everyone very soon!

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2 minutes ago, earleygallery said:

 

Well if it's fake news I'm sure someone from Leica will be along to reassure everyone very soon!

Provided they become aware of it. The TO forgot to mention how and where he found it, I think.

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1 hour ago, pop said:

Maby read the paper yet again? Says 'prompted to discontinue'. Also, the paper has been written by an undisclosed organisation for an undisclosed recipient. The wording is strikingly vague. It's just a collection of catch-phrases. It does not even have a proper letter head and the position of the red Leica logo is offset with respect to the text. Such a thing would never have left my office. The title of this thread is highly misleading as that paper does not offically announce anything at all. Even as a 'guideline for a response' it lacks luster. I think it's mere bait.

And that would be a first for Leica? 🤪

 

46 minutes ago, pop said:

Provided they become aware of it. The TO forgot to mention how and where he found it, I think.

Hard to miss -Leica does read the forum and I'm sure it will be on every relevant site pretty soon if not already. Anyway I did include this caveat in my first reaction. If it is indeed a fake then Leica will be aware of how the real thing shouldn't look.

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