Flat scanner / negative holder for making contact sheets ?

[grahamc]

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Hi Everybody 

I have a Plustek 8200i and Vuescan, which I am thoroughly enjoying .  As the Plustek is manual loading frame-by-frame (using strips of 6 frames in a holder), scanning several rolls at a time can be very time-consuming.

A work-around is just to 'preview' the whole roll (again frame-by-frame of course).  Generating a preview is quicker than the scans of course so along  the way I could only complete a "real" scan for the images I like or want to work on.  But even this workflow would take a while.  Of course there is a risk of 'missing' images that you will later like or need.  Such images would be on the neg strips but not digital - Which I don't like as realistically I probably wouldn't have the time to conduct the whole process again down the 're-discover' images that I'd initially passed on. 

So, I am thinking of buying a cheap (?) flatbed scanner to create contact sheets.  These can stay in an image catalogue (Lightroom in my case), after which I can use the plustek to scan frames of my choice from the roll, as I do like using it.

Does anyone have any tips please on a good scanner for this purpose and if there are such products available as a holder than takes 7 x 6 neg strips to make a 'sheet' ?

Thanks for any advice.  I'm open to alternative workflows also ... Perhaps I'm missing a trick to review the negatives more easily, as I am new to this 

Thanks !

G 

Edited May 15, 2022 by grahamc

[charlesphoto99]

I got an Epson 850 after my Imacon died and it comes with a plastic 'proof sheet' holder but I found for scanning 35mm a flatbed to be nearly useless. Finicky setup and lots of dust. Better is digital scanning with a camera and macro lens, and some sort of light source and film strip holder. Each frame takes about 1/2- 1/60th of a second (depending on light source and aperture used), and then one can print proof sheets from Lightroom (I use Negative Lab Pro software to convert neg scans  to positive) . One can go as expensive or as cheap with gear as they like with digital camera scanning - cheap for something like proofing, expensive if one plans on making larger prints. Here's my setup (Nikon D850, Tokina macro, Kaiser stand, Skier box light source, Negative Supply film holder) which is on the pricier side but intended as a replacement for the Imacon. It's close, though the $12k Imacon certainly had the advantage.

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[LocalHero1953]

I would also be interested in an answer to the OP's question.

I already scan with a digital camera. I scan before cutting the film, running the film through an Essential Film Holder with the camera set on 15 sec interval shooting. Although this is reasonably quick, I still have to invert the negatives. I would still rather take a contact sheet and decide which frames I should spend more time on making a better scan.

I have a Kaiser light panel which could only illuminate 3 strips at a time, but two shots would be OK.

I'm wondering about buying a Patterson Contact Printer on ebay and dismantling it. A film holder would be more elegant and secure though.

[Doug A]

It wasn't particularly cheap but I had good luck scanning contact sheets with an Epson V700. I put the negatives in PrintFile pages (3x4 for 120, 5x7 for 35mm), held it down with an 8x10 sheet of ANR glass, lowered the top of the scanner, and did an 8x10 scan of the whole page. There was no way to scan 36 35mm frames with this setup so when I was using the V700 I shot frame #1 of every roll with the lens cap on. 

[charlesphoto99]

Here you go, about as good a tutorial you can get for doing it on a V850. https://imgur.com/a/6hNUMo3 

It has me curious now because I do occasionally scan vintage proof sheets and enlarge. Wondering what the quality difference would be starting from new and scanning the original negs in a clean sleeve. Even better might be an 8X10 sheet of Newton glass on top of the bare negs for ultimate in quality, but a lot more setup time and not sure if an AN sheet of glass that size can be sourced.  

 

[charlesphoto99]

29 minutes ago, Doug A said:

It wasn't particularly cheap but I had good luck scanning contact sheets with an Epson V700. I put the negatives in PrintFile pages (3x4 for 120, 5x7 for 35mm), held it down with an 8x10 sheet of ANR glass, lowered the top of the scanner, and did an 8x10 scan of the whole page. There was no way to scan 36 35mm frames with this setup so when I was using the V700 I shot frame #1 of every roll with the lens cap on. 

Ah, there you go. Where did you source the 8X10 ANR glass? 

[charlesphoto99]

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Found some: http://store.khbphotografix.com/Generic-Anti-Newton-Glass.html

[Doug A]

KHB is a first class outfit. Highly recommended. 

I have had my 8x10 sheet of ANR glass since my darkroom days in the 1060's. I have no recollection of how it came into my hands. 

[LocalHero1953]

Non-glare acrylic may be a cheap way forward, but with far higher risk of scratching.

For those in the UK, a source of ANR glass.

Edited May 15, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[250swb]

I use an Epson V700. You don't need to get fancy, just use the holders it comes with and Epson Scan software. A contact sheet is only making a record for reference, and your Plustek will do far, far better full resolution scans when you choose the ones you want to take further. I have used Knight Optical in the UK for ANR glass but only for making custom film holders for camera scanning, you really don't need ANR glass for a decent flatbed scanner unless you have to put an 8x10 negative directly on the platen (because nobody makes an 8x10 film holder).

The big, big disadvantage of putting an 8x10 sheet of glass directly on the platen with 35mm film is misguided at best. You have five or six strips of potentially curling film, and the scanner goes into low res mode with platen scanning. Use the film  holders and not only do you get the higher resolution but after the preview scan you can change orientation and rotate the negatives, so all your images appear right way up in the final digital contact sheet.

Edited May 15, 2022 by 250swb

[Doug A]

There are certainly issues with a single 8x10 scan, but a few observations:

It is, by far, the easiest way to do a scanned contact sheet. My V700 low-res scans were surprisingly sharp. The purpose of the ANR glass was to hold the negatives in the PrintFile sheet flat. With a "real" contact sheet of 35mm, or other rectangular, negatives the frames are all in landscape orientation. Turning some of them 90º for an inkjet contact sheet wastes a lot of space which means fewer images and/or smaller images on the 8x10 sheet. 

[johnwolf]

I use a Logan lightbox and snap a digital pic of the negatives inserted in the plastic sheet. I place a piece of glass over the sheet to make it flat.

If you have other uses of a flatbed, maybe it would make sense. Seems like overkill just for contact sheets. 

I totally agree with your plan, though. I love pouring over my digital contact sheets again and again and always seem to find something new in them. I don't print my contact sheets, but store them in LR.

Give some thought to how you title your negative pages and contact sheet files so you ca easily cross-reference them. I now open the sheets in PS and neatly title them and add camera and processing info. Start with a good organization and filing system.

John

Edited May 16, 2022 by johnwolf

[250swb]

6 hours ago, Doug A said:

There are certainly issues with a single 8x10 scan, but a few observations:

It is, by far, the easiest way to do a scanned contact sheet. My V700 low-res scans were surprisingly sharp. The purpose of the ANR glass was to hold the negatives in the PrintFile sheet flat. With a "real" contact sheet of 35mm, or other rectangular, negatives the frames are all in landscape orientation. Turning some of them 90º for an inkjet contact sheet wastes a lot of space which means fewer images and/or smaller images on the 8x10 sheet. 

I think Graham was talking about making a digital contact sheet and not a printed one. But he could avoid the expense of ANR glass as it only avoids one contact surface that could form Newton rings, the film and clear negative file adds another two reflective layers between the covering glass and the flatbed glass.

[grahamc]

Thanks everybody for the interesting suggestions. 
 

and yes I was talking about a simple digital “contact sheet” which I can refer to to choose photos for more work.  It also doesn’t have to be one “sheet” it could be 2 or 3 x 12 images or so on each 

 

I think an epson scanner could be the way to go.  The v700 or v750 looks perfect although probably a bit more than what I need and they don’t seem to be available here in Aus.  
 

I can see a cheaper model the v600 though - and half the price. I’ll have a proper look at it tonight and see if negative holders are available for it.  
 

I’d be happy to have a roll on, say, 3 sheets so I can select images to scan higher res and work on board the plustek

for reference the v600 seems to be AUS$600 / 400 USD 

It looks like this is the negative holder that is compatible with the models up to the V600, after which the 700, 750 and 850 have a. holder with 4 x 35mm rows strips instead of 2.   (Also below)

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Edited May 16, 2022 by grahamc
added photos

[grahamc]

This site was recommended and may be useful :

 

http://www.betterscanning.com

(custom made negative holders , by scanner type with adjustable height for focussing . - Although once again the ones for models below v700 appear to be small. it must be a small scanner) 

 

The V600 is max 1500 DPI apparently but that doesn't really worry me for these needs .  I could probably live with 12 negs at a time in 2x strips 

Edited May 16, 2022 by grahamc

[cboy]

I have the Epson v700. It holds 35mm and larger through a holder you lay flat on the bed. However if the film itself is bowed slightly the holder doesn't flatten the film enough to truely get a flat scan so it scans the film slightly  bowed. The scans are quite acceptable however, at least to me , but I never really pixel peeped. It's good for batch scans

Edited May 16, 2022 by cboy

[Aryel]

I regularly do quick and dirty contact sheets with the Epson v850. I do not even take out the negatives out of the sleeves, I do it in 2 scans using the 8x10 setting and stick them together with photoshop. Adjust the contrast a bit, sharpen a lot and that’s it. 

it is definitely not as good as the plustek but good enough for me to decide what to print next. 

You can check an example here (170MB)

Edited May 16, 2022 by Aryel
I will remove the link in 24 hours or so

[Doug A]

7 hours ago, 250swb said:

I think Graham was talking about making a digital contact sheet and not a printed one. But he could avoid the expense of ANR glass as it only avoids one contact surface that could form Newton rings, the film and clear negative file adds another two reflective layers between the covering glass and the flatbed glass.

The purpose of the ANR glass was to hold the negatives flat. I never saw any Newton's rings or moire patterns with the setup. 

[Doug A]

5 hours ago, grahamc said:

This site was recommended and may be useful :

 

http://www.betterscanning.com

(custom made negative holders , by scanner type with adjustable height for focussing . - Although once again the ones for models below v700 appear to be small. it must be a small scanner) 

 

The V600 is max 1500 DPI apparently but that doesn't really worry me for these needs .  I could probably live with 12 negs at a time in 2x strips 

Epson specifies the resolution of the V600 as 6400 x 9600 dpi, the same as the V700 and V800. In my experience this is borne out by comparing my old V700 scans with the V600 scans I am making today. The only advantage of the V700 for me was its ability to do a negative scan of the whole 8x10 platen while the V600 can only do a narrow strip up the middle. 

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[250swb]

1 hour ago, Doug A said:

The purpose of the ANR glass was to hold the negatives flat. I never saw any Newton's rings or moire patterns with the setup. 

What I meant was that any glass would do. Newton rings form between two glossy reflective surfaces touching, you only cancel one surface out by using ANR glass on top of a glossy negative file sheet, below that there is the negative file to negative surface, and below that is the negative file to flatbed surface each of which can form Newton rings if indeed Newton rings form.