Metering

[pgk]

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Just carry a digital M body too. It will give you the meter reading and allow you to take photographs as well. Then you don't need to bother with an external or hand held meter at all. Just a thought😉.

[davidmknoble]

Just as a side note.  Using Sunny 16, the bright sunlight (not snow) is set at an EV of 15 (yes the 16 and 15 can be confusing, 16 is the aperture and 15 is the light level).  Then, shadows by buildings (not alleys) and large canopy, high trees, is typically 2 stops less, or EV 13.  I may meter both when walking about and adjust from there.  So, if I know I’m shooting ISO 125, then in the sunlight I might use 1/1000 sec at f/5.6, and I can pull that back to 1/250 or 1/125 when I hit the shadows.  It’s fast and I will pull out a meter to verify now and then, but can make shooting without a built-in meter more fun / challenging at the same time.

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[RayD28]

Other than not needing a battery, what is the advantage of a Seconic 398 Studio Deluxe II vs a Seconic 308?  

Edited April 30, 2022 by RayD28

[jaapv]

The are some quite decent metering apps for your phone as well.

[a.noctilux]

No need battery,

no need app,

no need phone,

just some practices,

Exposure Mat AND practicing a bit for confidence

not metering as such

understanding the process is much better to be free.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

[adan]

1 hour ago, RayD28 said:

Other than not needing a battery, what is the advantage of a Seconic 398 Studio Deluxe II vs a Seconic 308?  

1) does not need an "auto-off" timer to conserve battery power

2) does not have an electronic display that switches off automatically along with everything else.

The primary reasons I switched from a 308 back to the selenium meters is my butt got tired of 1) having to constantly "restart" the meter with the power button, and 2) looking at the meter after a couple of minutes to reconfirm the reading - only to find the meter had shut down and the display was blank.

The selenium meters (L28C, L398 and versions in between) don't even have an on/off switch at all. They are "metering" every second of their lives.

The button on the front-center just releases a "brake shoe" on the analog pointer-needle when pressed, so that it can move to display a reading at that instant.

And then locks down that needle position again when the button is released. Very simple and "elegant."

In the 398 (and probably other recent versions), there is an added "button lock" friction-ring around the button, which can be twisted with a finger or thumb a few degrees to allow the needle to move freely in response to light all the time, forever (or until the selenium plate eventually (decades) ceases to function). Or twisted back to the normal press-to-unlock/release-to-lock operation.

.............

The only real disadvantage to the Sekonic selenium meters is that they are a bit limited in dim light. But they can measure light down to the limits of "hand-holdability" - f/1.4 at 1/30th sec. at ISO 400 or a tad lower (or other equivalent setting combinations).

Which is all a Leica M film user needs, right? Tripods under Leica Ms are the tools of Satan!

[madNbad]

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The Reveni works well as a reflective meter, including down to very long exposures and very wide apertures. Overall, I’m happy with the results it offers but it does have a tendency to use up batteries in a short span. The last 398 I owned was a unused L-398a bought of Craigslist for fifty usd. When I started experimenting with flash, it was put away and the 308 got all of the use. The 398a was too nice just to sit in a box until I was ready to use it again, so it was sold off to an appreciative photographer. I like incident metering and it’s one more part of the process to enjoy.

[RayD28]

4 minutes ago, adan said:

1) does not need an "auto-off" timer to conserve battery power

2) does not have an electronic display that switches off automatically along with everything else.

The primary reasons I switched from a 308 back to the selenium meters is my butt got tired of 1) having to constantly "restart" the meter with the power button, and 2) looking at the meter after a couple of minutes to reconfirm the reading - only to find the meter had shut down and the display was blank.

The selenium meters (L28C, L398 and versions in between) don't even have an on/off switch at all. They are "metering" every second of their lives.

The button on the front-center just releases a "brake shoe" on the analog pointer-needle when pressed, so that it can move to display a reading at that instant.

And then locks down that needle position again when the button is released. Very simple and "elegant."

In the 398 (and probably other recent versions), there is an added "button lock" friction-ring around the button, which can be twisted with a finger or thumb a few degrees to allow the needle to move freely in response to light all the time, forever (or until the selenium plate eventually (decades) ceases to function). Or twisted back to the normal press-to-unlock/release-to-lock operation.

.............

The only real disadvantage to the Sekonic selenium meters is that they are a bit limited in dim light. But they can measure light down to the limits of "hand-holdability" - f/1.4 at 1/30th sec. at ISO 400 or a tad lower (or other equivalent setting combinations).

Which is all a Leica M film user needs, right? Tripods under Leica Ms are the tools of Satan!

What is the advantage of the L398 vs L28c?  

I have a chance to buy a used L28c.  Is a good way to test the L28 metering simply to compare my 308's readings to the L28's in different light conditions?  

How do you know when to use the High Slide that comes with the L398 and L28?

Sorry for all the questions, especially if any are dumb, but I appreciate your insight.  

 

[madNbad]

33 minutes ago, RayD28 said:

What is the advantage of the L398 vs L28c?  

I have a chance to buy a used L28c.  Is a good way to test the L28 metering simply to compare my 308's readings to the L28's in different light conditions?  

How do you know when to use the High Slide that comes with the L398 and L28?

Sorry for all the questions, especially if any are dumb, but I appreciate your insight.  

 

The L-28C was made in the 1970s, used a selenium cell, has a limited ISO range and no needle lock which means the needle continues to move while you’re trying to read it. The 398 and 398M also use a selenium cell but offer a wider range of ISO. I don’t quite remember but the M model may offer a needle lock. The latest version is the L-398a. It uses an environmentally friendly amorphous cell, the widest range of ISO and a needle lock which holds the readings in place. All of them read in foot candles and it’s the computer wheel that gives the reading. If the needle points to 320, you align the needle with that then choose your speed and aperture settings. All have a “High” slide and it’s own set of readings to go with it. On the dial there is an arrow marked “High” that is aligned with the readings. The High slide is used in bright lighting conditions to reduce the amount of light hitting the sensor. If you own a 308, you can calibrate the two meters to match. Hope this helps and let us know if you have more question.

Edited April 30, 2022 by madNbad

[RayD28]

20 minutes ago, madNbad said:

The L-28C was made in the 1970s, used a selenium cell, has a limited ISO range and no needle lock which means the needle continues to move while you’re trying to read it. The 398 and 398M also use a selenium cell but offer a wider range of ISO. I don’t quite remember but the M model may offer a needle lock. The latest version is the L-398a. It uses an environmentally friendly amorphous cell, the widest range of ISO and a needle lock which holds the readings in place. All of them read in foot candles and it’s the computer wheel that gives the reading. If the needle points to 320, you align the needle with that then choose your speed and aperture settings. All have a “High” slide and it’s own set of readings to go with it. On the dial there is an arrow marked “High” that is aligned with the readings. The High slide is used in bright lighting conditions to reduce the amount of light hitting the sensor. If you own a 308, you can calibrate the two meters to match. Hope this helps and let us know if you have more question.

Wonderfull!.  Thanks for taking the time to post the information.  

[spydrxx]

5 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

No need battery,

no need app,

no need phone,

just some practices,

Exposure Mat AND practicing a bit for confidence

not metering as such

understanding the process is much better to be free.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

I keep a copy in my car, and fully agree with your comments.

[Michael Geschlecht]

14 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

@madNbad, if there’s one thing we know, buying a light meter is the cheapest piece of gear you can get.

 

Hello David,

A meter can actually save a person time & money by reducing the number of improperly exposed images & lessening the need for bracketing.

I use a meter & whether or not I like the content of a photo I have almost no improperly exposed images. Including purposely lighter & purposely darker, etc. images. I rarely bracket unless I want a variety of exposures to choose from.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited May 1, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

[adan]

5 hours ago, madNbad said:

The L-28C was made in the 1970s, used a selenium cell, has a limited ISO range and no needle lock which means the needle continues to move while you’re trying to read it.

Not actually correct, with my L-28C.

With mine, the needle is only free to move around continuously when the button is pressed down to release the "brake." As soon as I let up on the button, the needle freezes in place at the last reading. For, well, forever - unless/until I press and hold the button again for a new reading.

In theory, I can come back to the meter after a year without using it, and the needle will still be locked in place, showing the last measurement I took 12 months earlier.

I should note that I use an incident meter more or less like a thermometer. I walk into a space and take one reading. "OK, the temperature of the air here is 21°C - and the light 'in the air' here is f/4 at 1/250th on 400 film."

And then put the meter back into my pocket and shoot away without metering each and every picture. Unless the light is exceptionally uneven, or I notice the sun setting or going behind a cloud, or some other gross change.

Down-and-dirty photojournalists' metering - for when trying to meter each picture individually will lead to distracting the subject, and/or missed moments. Leica and Oskar Barnack did not provide us with 36 exposures just so that we could take 36 meter readings.

As to the "bright-light" slide: rule of thumb would be use the slide in daylight, remove the slide indoors or when the sun is below the horizon. There is a stop or so of overlap where the slide can be used or not at the user's discretion.

[erl]

Exactly what Adan said.

[pgk]

Sunny 16 rules and other guesstimate methods are all very well, but if they had been effective then there would have been no need for meters to be produced.

[Andy_Shields]

19 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

No need battery,

no need app,

no need phone,

just some practices,

Exposure Mat AND practicing a bit for confidence

not metering as such

understanding the process is much better to be free.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

100% agree. It takes a little practice but complete freedom from a meter is a liberating way to shoot......every type of scene.

[pgk]

8 minutes ago, Andy_Shields said:

100% agree. It takes a little practice but complete freedom from a meter is a liberating way to shoot......every type of scene.

But not a very accurate way of ensuring good exposures. Each to their own though.

[cesc]

I have been shooting film from 7 -8 years now and mostly with no metered Ms, M3, and M2... I now own an MP because I wanted a metered body in case of difficult lighting conditions... In my opinion, film is sooo forgiving that all the work of contrast is done after, I normally got the same results with the MP now in my negatives, than  when I was estimating exposure. I am sure metering is more helpful for slide film where the range  of error is narrower.

Just try one week wihout  a meter, you will feel more confident. The  meter  makes me less confident, and seeing the red dot in the VF distracts me a lot, I wasn't expecting that when I decided to go for a metered M body.

 

Now my MP runs without batteries.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by cesc

[RayD28]

11 hours ago, adan said:

As to the "bright-light" slide: rule of thumb would be use the slide in daylight, remove the slide indoors or when the sun is below the horizon. There is a stop or so of overlap where the slide can be used or not at the user's discretion.

Thanks for that info.  I was afraid you'd have to meter the light to know if you need the bright-light slide.  🙂

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[Matlock]

37 minutes ago, pgk said:

But not a very accurate way of ensuring good exposures. Each to their own though.

I started taking photos around 1957, I bought my first meter around 1975. The only photos I have had published were taking before I had the meter. However meters do have their uses in many cases.