LR ecosystem download and sync best practice

[Dennis]

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Hello everyone! Please, I need some advice to resolve an issue I have. It's not LR's fault. It's mine. For bad management. Short story. I have used LR since v4, and I'm very familiar with it, at least the old perpetual license workflow. Then I switched in 2018 to C1 20, and since last October to LR mobile. But I had never used the LR cloud ecosystem before.

I bought an iPad Pro 12.9" last fall, and it's a joy to edit, minimalist and very intuitive; I can edit with the pencil wherever I want; I like it a lot. I initially subscribed to LR + 1TB, but then I realized then I can't work on the iPad only and that I needed the LR classic, too, for better file management and organization of all events and assignments. But now, I'm having trouble syncing, and I'm asking for your help to find a solution w/o losing all edits and having duplicate original files. I hope you can understand well despite my bad English. Sorry about that!

Some facts:

• My original DNG and Raws files are on my iMac internal drive, synced to DropBox. It works like a charm for me. This is a must.
• Until yesterday, once I had new daily Leica pictures to download, I was using the iPad Pro because between the USHII SD card, the M1 processor, and the fast SD reader, it was much quicker than my 2017 iMac. Once the editing was over, I exported final jpegs and original DNG files via AirDrop to my iMac and saved everything in the proper and respective folders. I know there is an extra step on this, but it has worked well for me.
• Ideally, (now) I would love to download all the new files in my DropBox (iMac), then import them to LR Classic in the same folder I never changed (all the Leica DNG keepers) then sync to LR mobile. Why? Because I want my physical DNG on my iMac for best practice and to sync faster in Classic, the keywords, batch actions, and things that you can better do on the Classic instead of an iPad. But I still would love to just edit the new photos on the iPad because I enjoy it more. 
• Now that I'm syncing all the LR mobile files and edits to my LR Classic, it's downloading all the original files (duplicates) on my computer 😞 But I have them already in a beautiful, organized DropBox folder. Tomorrow maybe everything will be already synced. But a mess

So, here go my questions:

1. If I delete the Mobile download big file and then tell Lr Classic to relocate the original DNG in my DropBox, what's happening? Can I do that? 
2. I can forget about all the folders and collections/albums on the iPad; I can do that. I can add new collections to the Classic from scratch and start from zero; it's not a big deal. But of course, I don't want to lose all the edits I did on the iPad. Is there a way to sync or copy all the edits?
3. For last. Let's pretend I successfully find the way to resolve everything I have so far. Great. But if I want to switch to "LR Classic + Lr Mobile + 20GB plan," can I still work on my iPad after running out of all the GB available? I have no interest at all in working with the Cloud. I don't need an online backup. I just want to be able, with wifi at home exclusively, to work on desktop and iPad and have everything sync. Is this possible, or I would need to purchase the 1TB plan?

 

I love this sentence: great power comes with great responsibility. Yes, it's good to work on several devices and environments, but hey, so many things to consider. I have always been consistent in photography and backups, but I have never found a long-term editing workflow and solution. And I'm paying the price. I just now want to find a definitive resolution. But I need some clarity cause I'm sure that I still need to understand something fundamental, lol. In a way, I'm still old school, and I'm suffering all this 'modern' stuff.

All your feedback and help are much appreciated. Thank you

 🙏  

 

[Bobitybob]

If I may, a little bit of back ground to start, which you may or may not know so forgive me if you do.

Lightroom comes in two versions.  Lightroom (Mobile) to use when you are away from your computer eg on holiday or in your case because you prefer to do your edit on your iPad and Lightroom Classic just for your Desktop/Laptop computers. You can Use Lightroom (Mobile) on a Laptop or Desktop without Classic but you will not have the advantage of Classic’s cataloging and full Keywording abilities.

The mobile version is primarily intended to be used with Adobe Creative Cloud storage if you want it to sync across your devices. It is not normally intended to store files locally other than as part of your import and editing process if that is the way you want to use it.  When you use it to import your files it automatically uploads the FULL image file to the cloud where it is stored.  When it does this it generates a Smart Preview which will contain any edits you make.  It is this preview that you can see on any of your other devices.  If you then make any edits on another device and then go back to your iPad you will see these edits as if they were made on that device.  If you work this way you need a lot of cloud storage eg 1TB.

Lightroom Classic is intended to store files on an internal or external drive, physically connected to your computer.  Unless you specifically want it to, it does not upload the FULL files to the Cloud but generates a Smart Preview which is uploaded and can be synced with your other devices using Lightroom Mobile as above.  Smart Previews do not use any of your cloud storage so you can get away with less eg 20GB.  To sync with the cloud (and other devices), you need to create Collections and drag the images using the Grid View to these.  These Collections will then show in Lightroom on your iPad

Having said the above.  Because Lightroom Mobile copies the full file to the cloud you can use you iPad to import files to the cloud and then download them to Lightroom Classic along with any edits you may have made on the mobile device.  Adobe Cloud will automatically do this for you, and thus you can use it as form of temporary storage between Mobile and Classic

You do not need DropBox or Airdrop and trying to use these will only complicate matters.

Lightroom Classic will create a folder on you computer where it will download the full files you have uploaded to the cloud from your iPad.  You can then drag these files to another folder (not a Collection as they only store previews of the file) on the computer.  You now have two copies of the files, one in the cloud and one on your computer.   If you have the 1TB plan then you can leave them if you wish.

If you only have a 20GB plan like I do you can now go back to the downloads folder and you can delete these files and in doing so they will be deleted from the cloud thus freeing up space for you to import more files from your iPad.

If you choose to import via Classic then as part of the process create Smart Previews and add them to a Collection as part of the import process.  They will then automatically be synced with the cloud and your other devices.

Adobe Cloud will automatically sync any Collections and edits you make across all your devices.  If you have been importing files via your iPad.

As an illustration this is how I organise my files in the years they were taken, but of course you can use any system you like.

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And the same Collections on my iPad,

 

The location of my downloads folder, which you can seen in the folders section on the left below 2022.

 

My cloud sync status showing that I have not used any of my 20GB.

 

Hope that makes sense.

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[Dennis]

Thank you so much, Bob, for your fantastic reply and effort. You helped me a lot to erase any doubts I had cause you explained it super well. 🙏 Yesterday I studied the topic on the adobe forum, and with your tips now, I think I found a solution for all my needs, and probably, it would be similar to yours, I guess. I want to change my plan from 1TB to 20GB w/o any doubt. I didn't know that the previews don't take space in the Cloud, which is excellent news. And don't want to download anymore photos to the iPad.

Today I will create a new catalog, importing all my Leica photos and syncing all of them to the Cloud. I have all the originals on my computer (synced to DropBox as I like it), but I can edit them on my iPad Pro 12.9" first and see the edits and changes in LrC. Also, because for the quick edits, I may prefer iPad Pro, but for all the rest, LrC is the way to go: there are so many great features to use. After a while of not using it yesterday, I downloaded it, and it still rocks. I also created a new folder on my desktop for files that I initially (and eventually) downloaded into the Ipad and added to the LrC preferences. Great!

I have two short-answer questions, if you don't mind. 

1. I much prefer to use Photo Mechanic for culling. So, once I download the new photos on my computer and have my keepers, I usually move these files to my DropBox when all my "good" raws stay. Then on LrC, I can synchronize the folder, and it automatically adds the new photos to the folder. But I have to manually add the news photos to the sync collection. Which is an extra step, and i can forget it. Or, I can import in Lr Classic and during the process, I can move the DNG to the dropbox folder and clicking on add to the collection to save one action later. Does it make more sense to you? Is any other more intelligent way to do this?
2. In the past, I usually created Standard previews to work on editing. Or smart preview when I was on the go, and the originals were not connected on my computer (offline). Which preview do you recommend creating upon the import, also if my originals are always connected? Which is faster? Does it make sense to create smart previews of the original?

Side note: I'm using iMac 2017 with 2TB storage, but only 16Gb RAM. I see that I need to upgrade asap to 32gb or 64tb. To edit at decent speed, I have to quit a fews apps.

Again, thank you so much!

[Dennis]

1 hour ago, Bobitybob said:

If I may, a little bit of back ground to start, which you may or may not know so forgive me if you do.

Lightroom comes in two versions.  Lightroom (Mobile) to use when you are away from your computer eg on holiday or in your case because you prefer to do your edit on your iPad and Lightroom Classic just for your Desktop/Laptop computers. You can Use Lightroom (Mobile) on a Laptop or Desktop without Classic but you will not have the advantage of Classic’s cataloging and full Keywording abilities.

The mobile version is primarily intended to be used with Adobe Creative Cloud storage if you want it to sync across your devices. It is not normally intended to store files locally other than as part of your import and editing process if that is the way you want to use it.  When you use it to import your files it automatically uploads the FULL image file to the cloud where it is stored.  When it does this it generates a Smart Preview which will contain any edits you make.  It is this preview that you can see on any of your other devices.  If you then make any edits on another device and then go back to your iPad you will see these edits as if they were made on that device.  If you work this way you need a lot of cloud storage eg 1TB.

Lightroom Classic is intended to store files on an internal or external drive, physically connected to your computer.  Unless you specifically want it to, it does not upload the FULL files to the Cloud but generates a Smart Preview which is uploaded and can be synced with your other devices using Lightroom Mobile as above.  Smart Previews do not use any of your cloud storage so you can get away with less eg 20GB.  To sync with the cloud (and other devices), you need to create Collections and drag the images using the Grid View to these.  These Collections will then show in Lightroom on your iPad

Having said the above.  Because Lightroom Mobile copies the full file to the cloud you can use you iPad to import files to the cloud and then download them to Lightroom Classic along with any edits you may have made on the mobile device.  Adobe Cloud will automatically do this for you, and thus you can use it as form of temporary storage between Mobile and Classic

You do not need DropBox or Airdrop and trying to use these will only complicate matters.

Lightroom Classic will create a folder on you computer where it will download the full files you have uploaded to the cloud from your iPad.  You can then drag these files to another folder (not a Collection as they only store previews of the file) on the computer.  You now have two copies of the files, one in the cloud and one on your computer.   If you have the 1TB plan then you can leave them if you wish.

If you only have a 20GB plan like I do you can now go back to the downloads folder and you can delete these files and in doing so they will be deleted from the cloud thus freeing up space for you to import more files from your iPad.

If you choose to import via Classic then as part of the process create Smart Previews and add them to a Collection as part of the import process.  They will then automatically be synced with the cloud and your other devices.

Adobe Cloud will automatically sync any Collections and edits you make across all your devices.  If you have been importing files via your iPad.

 

Hope that makes sense.

Thank you so much, Bob, for your fantastic reply and effort. You helped me a lot to erase any doubts I had cause you explained it super well. 🙏 Yesterday I studied the topic on the adobe forum, and with your tips now, I think I found a solution for all my needs, and probably, it would be similar to yours, I guess. I want to change my plan from 1TB to 20GB w/o any doubt. I didn't know that the previews don't take space in the Cloud, which is excellent news. And don't want to download anymore photos to the iPad.

Today I will create a new catalog, importing all my Leica photos and syncing all of them to the Cloud. I have all the originals on my computer (synced to DropBox as I like it), but I can edit them on my iPad Pro 12.9" first and see the edits and changes in LrC. Also, because for the quick edits, I may prefer iPad Pro, but for all the rest, LrC is the way to go: there are so many great features to use. After a while of not using it yesterday, I downloaded it, and it still rocks. I also created a new folder on my desktop for files that I initially (and eventually) downloaded into the Ipad and added to the LrC preferences. Great!

I have two short-answer questions, if you don't mind. 

1. I much prefer to use Photo Mechanic for culling. So, once I download the new photos on my computer and have my keepers, I usually move these files to my DropBox when all my "good" raws stay. Then on LrC, I can synchronize the folder, and it automatically adds the new photos to the folder. But I have to manually add the news photos to the sync collection. Which is an extra step, and i can forget it. Or, I can import in Lr Classic and during the process, I can move the DNG to the dropbox folder and clicking on add to the collection to save one action later. Does it make more sense to you? Is any other more intelligent way to do this?
2. In the past, I usually created Standard previews to work on editing. Or smart preview when I was on the go, and the originals were not connected on my computer (offline). Which preview do you recommend creating upon the import, also if my originals are always connected? Which is faster? Does it make sense to create smart previews of the original?

Side note: I'm using iMac 2017 with 2TB storage, but only 16Gb RAM. I see that I need to upgrade asap to 32gb or 64tb. To edit at decent speed, I have to quit a fews apps.

Again, thank you so much!

 

[Bobitybob]

Dennis, glad to help.

If your new workflow is to use Lightroom Classic to import your images, my suggestion would be to follow something like below.  Again, if you already know all of this please forgive me.

Download your files from your camera to the Desktop.

You can then use Photo Mechanic to cull these files/images if you wish.

Open Lightroom Classic and select Import.

On the left side of the import window go to the top and click on Select a source and click Desktop.  This will show all of the files/images you wish to import.  It automatically selects all the files but if you want to import somme to one folder and some to another then you can select them individually.

Go to the top of the window and click copy, use Copy rather than Add just incase something goes wrong.

On the left check Build Smart Previews.  Lightroom will then build these along with the normal previews stored in the catalogue.  So you will have both, one for the catalogue and one for the cloud which you see and edit on your other devices.

Check Don’t Import Suspected Previews, unless of course you want duplicates.

Check Make a Second Copy To: click the little down arrow and select the location of your DropBox.  Now when you import the files they will automatically be copied to your DropBox in a folder with the date.

Check Add to Collection and it will open and give you a list of your collections.  Chose the one you want to add to.

Rename the files if you wish, and apply any presets and Keywords during the import.

Go to Destination and select which folder on your Mac you want Lightroom to copy the files to.

Click Import.  Job done as they say, and all automatically.

With regard to your computer then the old adage is get the fastest one with the best video processor, the most RAM and the largest storage you can afford.  This is because rearly do files get smaller they always tend to get bigger.  Lightroom has always had a reputation for being memory hungry so the more you can give it the better it will perform.  Also allegedly it’s, currently not that good at multi threading so a faster processor speed rather than the number of cores appears to work better.

Having said the above the new native silicon version may work better with multi cored processes than the Intel version as they are more or less being forced into it by Apple.  Also the memory is integrated on to the chip so it gives a better performance.

You could increase the RAM in the short term and I’m sure this will help a little, but you will still have the same processor and video card so may be not that much as changing all of these.  My advice would be that when you use Lightroom close any unnecessary running apps to give its much memory as possible.

You may find this helpful https://lightroomkillertips.com/take-lightroom-on-your-summer-vacation/

Regards

[Dennis]

8 hours ago, Bobitybob said:

Dennis, glad to help.

If your new workflow is to use Lightroom Classic to import your images, my suggestion would be to follow something like below.  Again, if you already know all of this please forgive me.

Download your files from your camera to the Desktop.

You can then use Photo Mechanic to cull these files/images if you wish.

Open Lightroom Classic and select Import.

On the left side of the import window go to the top and click on Select a source and click Desktop.  This will show all of the files/images you wish to import.  It automatically selects all the files but if you want to import somme to one folder and some to another then you can select them individually.

Go to the top of the window and click copy, use Copy rather than Add just incase something goes wrong.

On the left check Build Smart Previews.  Lightroom will then build these along with the normal previews stored in the catalogue.  So you will have both, one for the catalogue and one for the cloud which you see and edit on your other devices.

Check Don’t Import Suspected Previews, unless of course you want duplicates.

Check Make a Second Copy To: click the little down arrow and select the location of your DropBox.  Now when you import the files they will automatically be copied to your DropBox in a folder with the date.

Check Add to Collection and it will open and give you a list of your collections.  Chose the one you want to add to.

Rename the files if you wish, and apply any presets and Keywords during the import.

Go to Destination and select which folder on your Mac you want Lightroom to copy the files to.

Click Import.  Job done as they say, and all automatically.

With regard to your computer then the old adage is get the fastest one with the best video processor, the most RAM and the largest storage you can afford.  This is because rearly do files get smaller they always tend to get bigger.  Lightroom has always had a reputation for being memory hungry so the more you can give it the better it will perform.  Also allegedly it’s, currently not that good at multi threading so a faster processor speed rather than the number of cores appears to work better.

Having said the above the new native silicon version may work better with multi cored processes than the Intel version as they are more or less being forced into it by Apple.  Also the memory is integrated on to the chip so it gives a better performance.

You could increase the RAM in the short term and I’m sure this will help a little, but you will still have the same processor and video card so may be not that much as changing all of these.  My advice would be that when you use Lightroom close any unnecessary running apps to give its much memory as possible.

You may find this helpful https://lightroomkillertips.com/take-lightroom-on-your-summer-vacation/

Regards

Thank you, Bob! You rock! This is exactly (or almost) what I will be going to do. And this includes building smart previews instead of standard ones. TBH, I prefer much more shooting than editing. I do enjoy it as well, but not as much when I have the camera in my handS. I never dived deeply into the editing world and best practice workflows. But because I want to start to be more organized, as I do with my HDs, backups, and DropBox. There are always good benefits from it.

Again, thank you!
P.s. The recommended youtube video is already in the 'watch later' folder. It looks promising 🙏

 🙏