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Guest guy_mancuso

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Guest guy_mancuso

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Well just making a point things are very not defined enough sometimes and i think Andreas is wrong here. It clearly is with the M8 at higher than norm ISO and pointing out how well the 90 cron can be. Than there are some threads that certainly jump in other area's, why pick mine and move it and the rest still sit there. Makes you wonder and i never post images just to post images. i usally have something techie behind it. Anyway not to go on here , just seems a little picky in the wrong spot.

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This horse is in danger of expiring from the flogging.

 

This has been turned into a technical thread, when it started off as a photo thread.

 

This is the correct place for it, IMHO. If Guy doesn't want his photos shown in this section, I will remove them on request.

 

Some of the other threads that Guy has kindly linked to will be moved to the appropriate place when I get a chance, when I get home, unless someone else has done the same already.

 

I see absolutely no reason why photo threads should be placed in the M8 section, when there is a whole area here for them. Keep the M8 section focussed and on topic, and then everyone knows where they are.

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Well just making a point things are very not defined enough sometimes and i think Andreas is wrong here. It clearly is with the M8 at higher than norm ISO and pointing out how well the 90 cron can be. Than there are some threads that certainly jump in other area's, why pick mine and move it and the rest still sit there. Makes you wonder and i never post images just to post images. i usally have something techie behind it. Anyway not to go on here , just seems a little picky in the wrong spot.

 

This reminds me of the ages-old issue of splitters versus lumpers. In biology if is often referred to in taxomony, such as whether to lump certain animals together in a family or split in a sub-families etc. There is often no clear answer. The forum has its own taxonomy.

 

Many of us only have time to look at one forum and choose the M8 forum as the one to look at, and to post to. I fit into that group, i.e., a lumper. Others are splitters and would like lots of separate forums. e.g., one for chrome M8s and one for black M8s. :rolleyes:

 

Also my internet connection here in a remote Alaskan community is rather slow, often less than 10 K/S, so clicking on many pages is not an option, as even one page may take a minute or more to load.:eek:

Tom:)

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My preference and sorry you don't agree but i don't like lots of rabbit holes to visit as Tom says i prefer to lump . That is what i have time for , if you have more time than me than spread yourself all over the place like butter. i don't have that time to do that.

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Thanks Andy . i just thougt it came from a tech point of view. People like to see how good these lenses are on the M8 and what kind of resolving power they actually have , we all seen the is the 90 apo any good posts. You know what i mean but look at the noise too at ISO 640 with LR defaults and it is petty amazing how clean they are.

 

Okay my idea of the photo forum and honestly i think a lot of folks are lumpers as Tom said , like to go to one place and hang. The photo forum to me is like a flicker account a place to go place images and show them to others by linking to them and no real text going on. That is the way i think many of us look at it but here is a idea and i know we are OT here but maybe make the photo forum like a flicker and set up member accounts and charge a fee for each person that wants to upload in groups of images and each member has a people, landscape etc. sections to it. than they can either post in a normal thread like customer with a one or two image or link it into there account section. some thoughts and maybe a thread we can talk about it the customer section to get some valued opinions. i know this is a source of conversation because it does come up alot. Maybe some kind of voting poll or poll to get some idea's going on it. But i do one thing many folks are lumpers and going around to every section of the forum is time consuming . Anyway let's maybe take this to the customer section but just some thoughts i think many folks kind of agree on.

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I thinks things are fine as they are.

 

As for people being 'lumpers' I'd point out that most people appear to be able to find and click on the photo-forum quite easily. Hence the near 13,000 posts there.

 

Personally I do not want this site to splinter into free areas and chargeable areas. It should be one or the other. I most certainly wouldn't want access to be via accessing an individuals photographs. One of the pleasant things about it is stumbling across a great photograph by someone you don't recognise.

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Guy

 

In the beginning, this forum was only a photo "sharing" site. These "technical" sections were added a couple of years ago, and only really became busy when the M8 was released and people wanted to ask and talk about all its problems.

 

If you care to read some of the posts in the photo forum, you will find that there is actually quite a lot of discussion going on, together with a lot of good shots being shown. It is much, much more than a Flickr account, IMHO, partly because the basis for being here is the use of Leica cameras and lenses.

 

There are no plans to add any subscription areas to this forum, as far as I am aware. Voting on posts is already available, it's just that no one uses it.

 

Again, IMHO, there is a real danger of an "us and them" situation developing if there is any further fragmentation. I also think it's a real shame that there are many people who can't be bothered to engage in the whole of the forum, and choose to remain, navel gazing, at the issues surrounding the M8...

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Well it's Andreas home and don't want to the guest that stayed to long either but it maybe a interesting conversation about it now that it is divided into tech and image. Sites do change there feel too . If we look at how many other forums are structured it is quite different not that we need to be like them at all. Anyway i don't want to be the meat between the bread here either so whatever is best all around is fine but maybe some defining would help but you will see images in the M8 section and that will never stop from members . They want to talk and show images that come from leica's factory and the R10 and m9 will do the same thing.

 

Even looking at the M8 landscape thread to me is a thing of beauty. wonderfull images and great flow to it. Okay maybe a few more camera processing details would be good but it does show the M8 specifically on what it can do and i think many folks want to see what it can do image wise.

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... R10 and m9 will do the same thing.

 

No chance.

 

R10 users will be much more disciplined. :)

 

This section was set up specifically for technical issues relating to the M8 - it was always intended that "just photos" would be placed in the photo forum.

 

I am beyond caring now, to be honest.

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This reminds me of the ages-old issue of splitters versus lumpers.

snip

 

Many of us only have time to look at one forum and choose the M8 forum as the one to look at, and to post to. I fit into that group, i.e., a lumper.

 

Well said! I agree on the time-availability issues and the last thing I want to do is wade through tons of irrelevant (to me) posts to find all discussions including the M8.

 

I do not understand why many forum moderators -- not just here, but elsewhere too -- feel the need to keep everything so rigidly organized. Yes, I understand they think it keeps the forum as a whole better organized, and it probably is from their global perspective. However, how important is that really? Most forum software includes very comprehensive search functions, so even if a Leica IIIc thread is posted in the M8 section, a search for "IIIc" will find it quickly.

 

The real issue is probably more about forum owners wanting to drive traffic to a specific forum for whatever reasons...

 

Me, I am interested ONLY in what folks have to say about images, issues and gear as respects the M8. If an M8 image is posted, that image is really ONLY relevant to other M8 shooters, INCLUDING data about the the lens used. Nothing in the image is going to resemble anything from a film camera -- and I suspect most of the die-hard film users would agree with that. A film shooter may want to know how a given lens performs in the center through 2/3 out to supplement their own testing on film, but I say if a film body shooter wants that added data, then THEY can come over here and read this forum :D

 

Cheers,

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In the german forum we post pictures in the photo forum and technical questions and tipps in the customer- film- digital-, or m8- forum.

It is a very bad manner to post all those m8 pictures in the m8 forum"because they have a technical aspect".

 

THen maybe you should stick to the German forum.:eek:

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If they post a picture taken with the M8, that image is really ONLY relevant to other M8 shooters...

 

I'm sorry Jack, I disagree so much with that statement that I'm unsure where to begin. A good photograph is a good photograph regardless of the equipment used to take it. The only limitation here is that there is some involvement with Leica as it's a site aimed at Leica photographers. The idea that someone shooting film would have no interest in a digital image, simply because it's digital, is one I find bizarre.

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I'm sorry Jack, I disagree so much with that statement that I'm unsure where to begin. A good photograph is a good photograph regardless of the equipment used to take it. The only limitation here is that there is some involvement with Leica as it's a site aimed at Leica photographers. The idea that someone shooting film would have no interest in a digital image, simply because it's digital, is one I find bizarre.

 

Perhaps you misunderstand my point... Let me clarify further. My point was there are multiple types of forums, but the one titled "M8" is ostensibly here to discuss aspects relating to use of the M8 -- the sub-heading even reads, "This forum is dedicated to everything around the Leica M8." So, if one posts an M8 image in the M8 section to specifically discuss technical issues and aspects of said image as it relates to the M8 -- like how sharp this or that lens is on an M8, or how this or that lens renders bokeh, or how this or that lens handles flare, or how this or that lens works with the IR-cut filter -- then that post is really only relevant only to the M8 and as likely, only other M8 or M8-want-to-be shooters.

 

However, if it is a thread about the artistic or philosophical aspects of an image, then I agree with you --- THAT type of thread should be posted in the image section where everybody can criticize it, or ohhh and ahhh over it, or discuss its global or spiritual meaning, regardless of the equipment used to create it. (Though this IS a Leica-specific forum in general...)

 

But I personally do NOT want to have to wade through those artistic/philosophical image discussion threads to find threads relating to performance issues -- and especially performance issues with a digital M body. (So when the M9 comes out, I am fine if the title of the forum changes to Digital M Bodies :D)

 

Make more sense now?

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So, if one posts an M8 image in the M8 section to specifically discuss technical issues and aspects of said image as it relates to the M8 -- like how sharp this or that lens is on an M8, or how this or that lens renders bokeh, or how this or that lens handles flare, or how this or that lens works with the IR-cut filter -- then that post is really only relevant only to the M8 and as likely, only other M8 or M8-want-to-be shooters. ...

 

 

Make more sense now?

 

It does make sense Jack, in fact I don't think that there is any problem at all in posting snaps to illustrate technical features, in fact if I remember correctly the posting rules say so. The 'issue' as I see it is that Guy's snaps above weren't showing any particular technical feature other than the fact that they were taken with an M8.

 

As for the renaming of the forum, I agree and think it should be done sooner rather than later. The creation of the M8 forum was originally intended to prevent the general digital forum from being swamped by M8 posts.

 

Thanks again for the clarification.

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I'm sorry Jack, I disagree so much with that statement that I'm unsure where to begin. A good photograph is a good photograph regardless of the equipment used to take it. The only limitation here is that there is some involvement with Leica as it's a site aimed at Leica photographers. The idea that someone shooting film would have no interest in a digital image, simply because it's digital, is one I find bizarre.

 

Not that i agree, but you'll find a large number of analog photographers that frequent the forums that don't even consider a digital image as a photograph. Posting a digital image in the non-digital based galleries will often get a more vocal response than this thread. Bizarre, yes, but not uncommon at all.

 

jim

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