What first Voigtlander lenses for my new incoming silver M11?

[Dob3rman]

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Hi all. Receiving my silver M11 (first-time M user). While I am figuring out what first Leica lens to buy, I would like to buy a couple Voigtlander lenses to get me started. What Voigtlander lenses do you recommend? I know it depends on many factors. Here is what I am looking for. 28mm (or 35mm), 50mm, and 70mm, in not particular order. I looked at the Cameraquest chart, but so confusing. Maybe start with 2lenses, 28mm and a 50mm. Thanks for the advice and feedback

i know this is a Leica forum and hoping I don’t upset anyone asking this question here. 😊

Edited April 20, 2022 by Dob3rman
Typo

[Ko.Fe.]

I recommend not to galore with lenses. Two might be enough for all...

Avoid huge lenses, they are blocking framelines and just making rig disbalanced.

The thing Viogtlander is making it less great than Leica is called focus tab. If you want to use rangefinder camera to its full potential (quick and intuitive focusing) lens gotta have focus tab. At least. Better if lens is smooth to focus with focus tab. This is where Leica is better than anyone else.

CV (Cosina Viogtlander) has two good, tabbed and compact 28 and 35 with f2. 

28mm f/2.0 Ultron Vintage Aspherical VM Lens Type II and Voigtlander Ultron Vintage Line 35mm f/2 Aspherical Type II VM.

I can't recall them made not too slow 50mm with focus tab. But here is compact Voigtlander Nokton 50mm f/1.5 Aspherical II which could be tabed by taab tab or if you OK with results without been fancy - cable tie as tab always works on lens like this.  

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[hmzimelka]

Yeah, I second that recommendation with two lenses. 

The Ultron 35mm is a rather good lens, and 28mm seems even better. If 28mm is the focal length for you I would recommend the Ultron 28mm, since I believe its even better off centre at wider apertures to the Ultron 35mm.

On the M11, the Ultron 35 ASPH II is very sharp centre, but drops off quite a bit in the mid zone until f/5.6 at which one gets a relatively even distribution sharpness throughout the frame on the M11. The 35mm though looks to have busier background out of focus rendering compared to the 28mm too. I have it in Silver, and it looks good on a black or silver M11 ( I had the Silver M11 initially). 

I also have the Nokton 50/1.5 ASPH II and Zeiss Planar 50/2. While the Planar is excellent, the Nokton is too. The Nokton is sharper at the edges at wider apertures, but has a mid zone dip, while the Planar has a gradual and even fall off of sharpness from the centre to the corners wide open, which gets better with every stop closing down. The annoying thing about Zeiss lenses is the 1/3 aperture steps.

Both the Ultron 35  ASPH II and the Nokton 50 ASPH II have a high amount of vignetting. But at this price its hard to argue their performance. They are very sharp even on the M11 and I enjoy using them. The Nokton 50mm feels good to use even without a tab, but its one of those lenses that just isn't perfect for everyone ergonomically. The winged aperture ring is annoying.

The Ultron 28mm ASPH II will be a much better performer than the 28mm Elmarit ASPH especially off centre. The only benefit with the Elmarit is the compact size and its light and smooth focusing action. Overall I think Voigtlander provides everything I would ever want in a lens and I have no desire for Leica lenses anymore. The biggest annoyance with Voigtlander is its inconsistent and varied design language.

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by hmzimelka

[anickpick]

The Voigtlander 75mm 1.5 Nokton is fantastic (probably my favorite 75mm lens - and I tried all the 75mm Leica lenses, current and past).

I'd pair it either with a 28mm lens and a 50mm lens or with a 21mm lens and a 35mm lens.

21mm: The Voigtlander 21mm 3.4 is a lovely lens. Tiny. / The Voigtlander 21mm 1.4 is a very good lens. Optically superior to the Summilux, but more vignetting.  Big and heavy.

28mm: Voigtlander 28mm Ultron II. (However, I have not tried it)

35mm: Nokton 1.2 III or Ultron 2.0 II (depending what you want: fast and modern rendering vs. small and classic rendering)

50mm: Nokton 1.2 or 1.5 II (both great lenses, almost as good as the Summilux).

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by anickpick

[Al Brown]

I can dearly recommend the 28/2 Ultron II. Will not disappoint.

[Franky]

I have the apo Lanthar 50mm and tested the 35mm version. Both were very good with an M11.
The Leica apo 35 mm is even better, but also seven times more expensive.
I still have the 1.0/50 mm from Voigtlaender.
This is very good for the purpose.

[Photoworks]

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Nokton 50 mm F1.0

nice lens, this copy suffers from focusing issue at minimal distance only.

 

the CV 50mm 1.5 II is probably the smaller 50mm. it is a good 1.5 lens but you often need to deal with CA wide open.
It is a good alternative to the Summilux 50.

Here are some photos..
https://photos.alexkroke.com/Review/Voigtlander-Nokton-50mm-f15-Aspherical-II-MC-Lens/n-DB9tRg/

 

[rramesh]

Voigtlander Ultron 35mm f/2 Aspherical Type II VM in Silver Chrome, or the APO-LANTHAR 35mm f/2.0 Aspherical Lens.

Edited April 21, 2022 by rramesh

[satijntje]

For sure the 2 APO Lanthar 35 and 50mm glasses. 
 

[ejg1890]

There are 3 options I would suggest:

1. 35mm f2 Ultron if you acquire 1 lens. Good all around lens probably one of their best
2. 28mm f2 Ultron and 50mm f1.5 Nokton (not Heliar) 
3. 35mm f2 Ultron and 75mm f1.5 Nokton

These are all small lenses except for the 75mm, but for a 75mm 1.5 its small. Per my shooting I would go with either options 1 or 2 but it all depends on what and how you shoot.  

 

[Dob3rman]

Hi all. . Just received my Leica M11 today and based on the feedback and research, I purchased the Voigtlander 50mm F2 Lanthar. I updated the FW to the latest version. 
I called Camera Quest and they said to set the camera to Automatic lens detection which I did.  The M11 is not recognizing the lens and I can’t find any instructions on Voigtlander’s website for this specific lens.  How do I setup the M11 to work on this lens?  Thank you  

Thanks in advance

[Dob3rman]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:35 AM, Photoworks said:

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Nokton 50 mm F1.0

nice lens, this copy suffers from focusing issue at minimal distance only.

 

the CV 50mm 1.5 II is probably the smaller 50mm. it is a good 1.5 lens but you often need to deal with CA wide open.
It is a good alternative to the Summilux 50.

Here are some photos..
https://photos.alexkroke.com/Review/Voigtlander-Nokton-50mm-f15-Aspherical-II-MC-Lens/n-DB9tRg/

 

Great shot...Thanks for sharing the other photos as well. Look great...

[M11 for me]

My advice: Do not buy a bunch of lenses. Buy what suits the M. 

Start with the 28mm Summicorn (from Leica) plus the 50mm Summicon (non APO). The 28 gives you 35 and 50 when croping 1.3 or 1.8x. This is the equivalent of the Q2. If you like longer lenses buy the APO 75mm Summicron which gives you 90mm ond 135mm when croping in camera. When you think of this then it becomes clear that with 28 and 75mm you cover up to 135mm and with the 50 in between you get the top of the cream. You do not need 21 nor 35mm.

[Siriusone59]

33 minutes ago, Dob3rman said:

Hi all. . Just received my Leica M11 today and based on the feedback and research, I purchased the Voigtlander 50mm F2 Lanthar. I updated the FW to the latest version. 
I called Camera Quest and they said to set the camera to Automatic lens detection which I did.  The M11 is not recognizing the lens and I can’t find any instructions on Voigtlander’s website for this specific lens.  How do I setup the M11 to work on this lens?  Thank you  

Thanks in advance

Just my opinion but I don't think there is  a correct answer to your question.  Since the list of lenses doesn't include the voigtlander, I usually just pick one that is closest to what I have mounted...for instance my 35mm ultron2 is selected as a APO 35 f2, mainly so when examining the exif data I'll know it was a 35mm.  I suppose one could do a brick wall test to look for distortion and vignetting and pick a setting to give the best results.  It's kind of a trial and error thing, hopefully someone with the 50f2 Lanthar will chime in with what gives them the best results and save you a few steps.

I don't understand CQ telling you to use Auto since they know the lens is uncoded...unless that is their way of telling you that it really doesn't matter.

That said, like I'm certain you've seen, the Lanthar does produce excellent images and I believe you will enjoy using it.  It was my first choice before I stumbled across a decent deal on a summicron 50mm.

[Photoworks]

8 hours ago, M11 for me said:

My advice: Do not buy a bunch of lenses. Buy what suits the M. 

Start with the 28mm Summicorn (from Leica) plus the 50mm Summicon (non APO). The 28 gives you 35 and 50 when croping 1.3 or 1.8x. This is the equivalent of the Q2. If you like longer lenses buy the APO 75mm Summicron which gives you 90mm ond 135mm when croping in camera. When you think of this then it becomes clear that with 28 and 75mm you cover up to 135mm and with the 50 in between you get the top of the cream. You do not need 21 nor 35mm.

you are suggesting to use the EVF all the time is needed a different lens and crop in.

just because it is possible it is not the best experience . the prospective is incorrect too. just like the Leica Q2.

the M camera are the best with a 35mm or 50mm! you can see the frame lines easily and room to frame.

[hmzimelka]

10 hours ago, Dob3rman said:

Hi all. . Just received my Leica M11 today and based on the feedback and research, I purchased the Voigtlander 50mm F2 Lanthar. I updated the FW to the latest version. 
I called Camera Quest and they said to set the camera to Automatic lens detection which I did.  The M11 is not recognizing the lens and I can’t find any instructions on Voigtlander’s website for this specific lens.  How do I setup the M11 to work on this lens?  Thank you  

Thanks in advance

Well, none of the Voigtlander lenses are coded unless you do it yourself... so there is no way that the camera can identify the lens otherwise. 

I've requested a feature to Leica for the M11 to ad more options to the lens profile menu for the user to enable or disable shading. Some people just want exif data and no colour or vignette correction.

Anyways, you can select a manual profile, and probably your best bet is the Summicron 50 f/2 11819/11825/11826/11816.  Otherwise, you could use the APO Summicron 50 profile but that will require you to code your lens with paint; 110101

Edited April 22, 2022 by hmzimelka

[M11 for me]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb Photoworks:

you are suggesting to use the EVF all the time is needed a different lens and crop in.

just because it is possible it is not the best experience . the prospective is incorrect too. just like the Leica Q2.

the M camera are the best with a 35mm or 50mm! you can see the frame lines easily and room to frame.

You might be correct. But my point was different: The TO wants to start at a point. It is true that others might own a bunch of lenses. But I still believe that 28 and 50 is the best start with an M11. And indeed you can crop with the M11. Its even built in. Equal to the Q2 when you use the M11 with the 28mm. A 1.3 crop gives you a 39Mpix (!) 35mm angle of view. That works perfectly well.

[ianforber]

I recently bought an M11 as my first M after lusting after one for many years. I decided to go for a 50mm Summicron as my only lens and get used to it before deciding what other lenses (if any) to get. I am working on the assumption that I’ll get the 90mm Elmar at some point because I like to crop and 90mm combined with the M11 sensor should provide something akin to 200mm-ish. 
 

That said, I do have a Q2 if I need anything wider than 50mm but I never take both cameras out at the same time. Too bulky!

[PhoToad]

The CV Nokton 40 mm 1.2 is a great lens -  fast and sharp - if you can get accustomed to the lack of 40 mm framelines in the RF (the 50 mm lines are shown instead) and to the somewhat heavier weight. With this lens, you have the best of both 35 and 50 mm worlds. You might combine this with the 21 mm 3.4 Color-Skopar. If you want to go light, you could buy the 35 mm 1.4 Nokton II MC instead of the 40 mm (giving you headroom for cropping towards 50 mm angle and above when used with the M11).

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[adan]

19 hours ago, Dob3rman said:

The M11 is not recognizing the lens and I can’t find any instructions on Voigtlander’s website for this specific lens.  How do I setup the M11 to work on this lens?

As a first-time M user, you should throw away all preconceptions of how modern, electronically-chipped lenses and cameras work together. The Ms follow a very different path, in that way and other ways. As you will find out quickly**.

1) Really not much to set up, with a 50mm lens. The focusing and aperture setting is manual and "built into" both the lens and camera via mechanical parts. Choose ISO and shutter speed and aperture just as if it was 1969, and take pictures. Or set the camera (with ANY lens of any make) to A(uto) ISO or A(uto) shutter speed, if desired.

2) The Leica digitals will recognize Leica-made lenses if they have the proprietary, patented Leica 6-bit bar-code engraved on the back. Non-Leica lenses like Voigtlanders cannot provide such coding, due to Leica's patent. Leica-built lenses since 2006 come with the coding from the factory - some Leica lenses dating back to the 1970s can have a factory upgrade to add 6-bit coding (for a price).

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/0669712115/leicamdlenses

3) If one wants to, one can either A) paint a code for a similar Leica lens onto the back of the Voigtlander lens (Voigtlander does provide a protective channel in the lens mount for doing this), or B ) use the Lens Detection menu set to "MANUAL M" and then select an equivalent Leica lens from the menu (either "50mm f/2 11817" or "50mm f/2 11819/11825/11826/11816" should work equally well).

It is a good idea to do that, because otherwise the M11 will ID the lens automatically all by itself, as whatever is already set in the lens menu.

Unless/until you get additional non-coded lenses, you can set that ONCE and then forget about it - the M11 will remember your setting.

_______________
** for example, you will soon find out that an M digital can only "guess" at the aperture you used. There is no direct connection (electronic or mechanical) between the camera and the aperture ring on the lens. The camera simply compares the light from the original scene (via the little round external sensor window on the front just above the red Leica logo) to the light coming through the lens to the meter/sensor.

Don't be surprised when your M11 "guesses and records" that you used f/4 or f/4.8 or f/6.8, when you know you really used f/5.6.

(BTW - the "black rainbow" lower right on the M-digital lens mount covers the six infrared transmitter/receivers that detect, read, and record 6-bit coding, if any. Otherwise, the lens connection is pretty much identical to a 1954 M3 for film. 68 years of "backwards compatability.")

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