hdmesa Posted April 16, 2022 Share #1 Posted April 16, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) My new M11's rangefinder is out of vertical alignment out of the box (new unit w/factory seal). With a lens focused to the hard stop and set to maximum aperture, the image comes out perfectly focused at infinity, but the rangefinder patch looks less sharp than the rest of the frame. Also when I first started using it, I wasn't getting all the frame lines in the rangefinder (some looked half gone or too thin) until I tried moving the frame line lever on the front of the camera and suddenly all the frame lines appeared correctly. Is this a bad sign and I should ask for a replacement? Seems like it will be a wait either way. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 16, 2022 Posted April 16, 2022 Hi hdmesa, Take a look here New M11 – Rangefinder out of vertical alignment. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
SoarFM Posted April 16, 2022 Share #2 Posted April 16, 2022 (edited) Bummer. Horizontal you can do yourself, easily. I always carry the 2mm hex with me just in case. I understand for vertical you need to get behind the Leica dot. I've never done that. It's new, have them get it right. I think asking you dealer for an exchange with next deliveries seems fair, I hope they accommodate you. Edited April 16, 2022 by SoarFM 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba Erv Posted April 16, 2022 Share #3 Posted April 16, 2022 If it’s an consolation, I’m pissed off for you! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashley Posted April 16, 2022 Share #4 Posted April 16, 2022 3 hours ago, SoarFM said: Bummer. Horizontal you can do yourself, easily. I always carry the 2mm hex with me just in case. I understand for vertical you need to get behind the Leica dot. I've never done that. It's new, have them get it right. I think asking you dealer for an exchange with next deliveries seems fair, I hope they accommodate you. Ask for a replacement immediately and do not allow yourself to be fobbed off. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelatino Posted April 16, 2022 Share #5 Posted April 16, 2022 (edited) Under warranty go for adjustement by Leica, out of warranty do it yourself (some videos on YT ). For vertical misalignment you need to unstick the red dot with half a drop😰 of aceton , take it off carefully (I use wooden toothpicks to avoid scraching) to access to the 2mm screw that you turn with an allen hex( the same SoarFM has in his bag 👍) Test the correction with live view, when done put back the dot (if necessary change the double sided tape). First time, it's as every first time...🤣 Edited April 16, 2022 by Gelatino Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted April 16, 2022 Author Share #6 Posted April 16, 2022 Thanks, everyone. Dealer is great, so I'm sure they'll set up a replacement. Hopefully in these cases Leica will send the dealer a replacement quickly. If I have to wait for the dealer's regular shipment, then it might as well be never, and I'll just get a refund or spend the money on M lenses instead. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted April 16, 2022 Share #7 Posted April 16, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) How many lenses were off on the vertical alignment? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted April 16, 2022 Author Share #8 Posted April 16, 2022 42 minutes ago, jdlaing said: How many lenses were off on the vertical alignment? Both the ones I tried, CV 50 APO and 28 Lux. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted April 16, 2022 Share #9 Posted April 16, 2022 3 hours ago, hdmesa said: Both the ones I tried, CV 50 APO and 28 Lux. On the 28 Summilux if you back off from The hard stop a millimeter or so does the rangefinder patch clear up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted April 16, 2022 Author Share #10 Posted April 16, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jdlaing said: On the 28 Summilux if you back off from The hard stop a millimeter or so does the rangefinder patch clear up? No, there is no alignment where the patch is not softer than the surrounding viewfinder. And if I take photos with both lenses wide open at infinity at the hard stop, they are perfectly focused (meaning it's not a case where they cannot reach infinity). At any distance when the patch is aligned, the image in the patch is never perfectly sharp – at closer distances I can see the two images that need to line up are not vertically aligned, so they never converge perfectly – I can watch the two images pass each other, and one is higher than the other by a small amount. Edited April 16, 2022 by hdmesa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted April 17, 2022 Share #11 Posted April 17, 2022 What you are seeing in the rangefinder patch is a primary image seen directly through the viewfinder and a secondary image superimposed on it taken from the rangefinder window and projected into the viewfinder optics via an internal reflection in the viewfinder prism. If those two images are out of vertical alignment, that's definitely a calibration issue and it used to be accessible from the outside by removing the red dot. If the rangefinder patch appears milky, then thats a problem in the internal rangefinder optics. Either way, it shouldn't exist in a new M11 even though it was not uncommon back in the day of the M8 and M9. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkmoore Posted April 17, 2022 Share #12 Posted April 17, 2022 15 hours ago, hdmesa said: No, there is no alignment where the patch is not softer than the surrounding viewfinder. And if I take photos with both lenses wide open at infinity at the hard stop, they are perfectly focused (meaning it's not a case where they cannot reach infinity). At any distance when the patch is aligned, the image in the patch is never perfectly sharp – at closer distances I can see the two images that need to line up are not vertically aligned, so they never converge perfectly – I can watch the two images pass each other, and one is higher than the other by a small amount. Another option is to send to Leica NJ yourself and explain the situation. They will adjust the rangefinder super quick for you given that you just purchased the camera. the only caveat to this is I don’t know if they are working on M11s yet. I had a RF issue with my first unit and they weren’t working on M11s (didn’t have parts) yet so they replaced quickly. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob L Posted April 17, 2022 Share #13 Posted April 17, 2022 The hardest part of this adjustment is getting the red dot off. DAG has replacements if you mess it up, I always do. The adjustment is easy, just requires a bit of trial and error and luck. I would not send it back unless they have an immediate replacement. I've had easily 1/3 of my new bodies delivered this way, but I'm picky. Many people may not notice if they are focusing on vertical linear elements. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted April 17, 2022 Author Share #14 Posted April 17, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, marknorton said: What you are seeing in the rangefinder patch is a primary image seen directly through the viewfinder and a secondary image superimposed on it taken from the rangefinder window and projected into the viewfinder optics via an internal reflection in the viewfinder prism. If those two images are out of vertical alignment, that's definitely a calibration issue and it used to be accessible from the outside by removing the red dot. If the rangefinder patch appears milky, then thats a problem in the internal rangefinder optics. Either way, it shouldn't exist in a new M11 even though it was not uncommon back in the day of the M8 and M9. Ah, yes, it does seem milky in addition to the vertical misalignment. It actually hurts my eyes to look at it intently because it feels like I can't focus on it no matter what (while the rest of the frame looks fine). One of my M10s was ever so slightly out of vertical alignment, but it never bothered me as I could still focus and feel like the image popped into focus when aligned. Not so with this one. The frame lines also did not show up right out of the box (50mm CV APO) – some lines were missing, some were half-thickness until I flicked the front frame line lever. Also once while using the 28 Lux they glitched out again, requiring me to flick the front lever to clear it up. I think I'm better off with asking for a new unit at this point. Edited April 17, 2022 by hdmesa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 17, 2022 Share #15 Posted April 17, 2022 Replacement would be an easy call for me. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadeadam Posted April 18, 2022 Share #16 Posted April 18, 2022 (edited) It's new, have them hit the nail on the head. I think asking you seller for a trade with next conveyances appears to be fair, I genuinely want to believe that they oblige you. banquet halls in chennai Edited April 18, 2022 by jadeadam Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted April 18, 2022 Share #17 Posted April 18, 2022 Had this on my M10 and M10R. It's infuriating. Gordon 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share #18 Posted April 19, 2022 Seller agreed to a return, and it's been shipped via provided label. Unfortunately Leica no longer expedites replacement units to vendors (or at least this vendor), and I would have to wait until their next regular M11 shipment if I wanted an exchange. I've requested a refund. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ba Erv Posted April 19, 2022 Share #19 Posted April 19, 2022 A prime example of why I canceled my M11 order. Loose QC doesn’t cut it for a $9000 camera. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hdmesa Posted April 19, 2022 Author Share #20 Posted April 19, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ba Erv said: A prime example of why I canceled my M11 order. Loose QC doesn’t cut it for a $9000 camera. I don’t blame you. Leica did say there were minor improvements to the optical rangefinder — perhaps that has introduced additional complication to the assembly process. Waiting for the M11-P is sounding like the best bet to me at this point. Edited April 19, 2022 by hdmesa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.