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M11 now supported by adobe


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vor 1 Stunde schrieb LBJ2:

Many if not all manufacturers seem to tweak what we perceive as color with almost every new model released sometimes intentionally, sometimes as a result of new hardware/software and/or a combination thereof implemented. If you shoot RAW/DNG might as well take a few minutes to learn some basic color adjustments with your favorite image editor. In the case of Lightroom Classic take a quick scroll through this reference:

https://expertphotography.com/color-correction-lightroom/

In my experience once you realize how subtle or dramatic a few simple clicks, sliders can do to image color you'll want to learn more...regardless of the camera/lens used or editing app of choice. 

Thank you - I will look deeper into it.

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For Lightroom imports I have custom settings for various camera models, and the M11 is no exception.

However, Adobe Lightroom Classic just doesn't honour these settings. I use Adobe Standard as profile, as I dislike the M11 profile's overly saturated colours. Also, I reduce the chroma noise slider to 10 or 15 usually, instead of the default 25. 

Lightroom Classic just doesnt honour the camera profile and colour noise settings for the M11, and only the M11. My D850, D810 and Z6II don't have this problem.

Doesn't matter how often I update the settings, renew the preset, change the import preferences, my settings are always not loaded completely. The images always have M11 as camera profile and chroma noise set to 25. After import I always have to select all my images and select Reset Develop settings to get my defaults to load properly. Prior to the current update from a few days ago, it didn't honour the sharpening settings. Now it does.

Anyone else notice this? I'm running LR Classic on MacOS, all on current versions.

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42 minutes ago, hmzimelka said:

For Lightroom imports I have custom settings for various camera models, and the M11 is no exception.

However, Adobe Lightroom Classic just doesn't honour these settings. I use Adobe Standard as profile, as I dislike the M11 profile's overly saturated colours. Also, I reduce the chroma noise slider to 10 or 15 usually, instead of the default 25. 

Lightroom Classic just doesnt honour the camera profile and colour noise settings for the M11, and only the M11. My D850, D810 and Z6II don't have this problem.

Doesn't matter how often I update the settings, renew the preset, change the import preferences, my settings are always not loaded completely. The images always have M11 as camera profile and chroma noise set to 25. After import I always have to select all my images and select Reset Develop settings to get my defaults to load properly. Prior to the current update from a few days ago, it didn't honour the sharpening settings. Now it does.

Anyone else notice this? I'm running LR Classic on MacOS, all on current versions.

I am not following.

There are a couple of things that could happen. In Preferences>Presets>Raw Defaults you can specify whether you want globally to use Adobe Default, Camera Settings, or Preset. What is your setting?

When importing a file, you can specify a preset to be applied after the import (Apply During Import Tab). The effect should be the same as when you apply the preset manually. What is your setting?

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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I am not following.

There are a couple of things that could happen. In Preferences>Presets>Raw Defaults you can specify whether you want globally to use Adobe Default, Camera Settings, or Preset. What is your setting?

When importing a file, you can specify a preset to be applied after the import (Apply During Import Tab). The effect should be the same as when you apply the preset manually. What is your setting?

In Preferences>Presets>Raw Defaults are set to make all imports of M11 files adhere to a pre-configured preset I want my M11 files to be set to at import.

I have this for my other cameras too, and it works as it should. 

However, for my M11 files, this preset is partially applied. Colour Noise reduction is ignored as is the Camera calibration.

After import, in the Develop module, I press reset the image adjusts to my M11 default settings.

I do not have any settings applied set in the import menu's "Apply During Import" section 

 

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34 minutes ago, hmzimelka said:

In Preferences>Presets>Raw Defaults are set to make all imports of M11 files adhere to a pre-configured preset I want my M11 files to be set to at import.

I have this for my other cameras too, and it works as it should. 

However, for my M11 files, this preset is partially applied. Colour Noise reduction is ignored as is the Camera calibration.

After import, in the Develop module, I press reset the image adjusts to my M11 default settings.

I do not have any settings applied set in the import menu's "Apply During Import" section 

 

Your preset is named the same as the default built-in preset (M11 PRESET, all caps). That could be an issue. Try renaming your own M11 preset.

Try applying your preset in Apply During Import, to see if it works there.

 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, SrMi said:

Your preset is named the same as the default built-in preset (M11 PRESET, all caps). That could be an issue. Try renaming your own M11 preset.

Try applying your preset in Apply During Import, to see if it works there.

 

Why would that be an issue? It's a custom name under User Presets.

I've changed the name and it doesn't make a difference, it does the same thing... 

If I apply it during import under Apply During Import then it works. 

I've never had this issue with any camera other than the M11, and I've been Lightroom user since Lightroom 1.0

Edited by hmzimelka
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Camera colours are subject to several things, which I’ll try and explain briefly 

The sensor requires amplification (for want of a better word) and this can effect how much red/green/blue are prevalent in the freshly imported image

The camera also has a native tone curve, which affects colour. (Leica can tweak this if they want)

How the camera calculates WB is another factor.. sure RAW is WB unbalanced (kinda) but the camera always records a WB setting. Adobe uses whatever this setting is (in conjunction with its own maths) to form the freshly imported image

The CFA. The density and actual colours of the CFA vary between cameras (even from the same brand) and again, this impacts the look of the colours on the freshly the imported image.

The camera calibration. Adobe, C1, DxO, you at home with a CC24, etc, the calibration produced is a compromise between the colours. (And in all of those usage scenarios someone other than you is choosing the trade offs. Yes even you at home, because the x-rite app is making the profile). You can see this effect in adobe, for example slide the green hue camera calibration slider to the right to make green less yellow and at the same time red gets less orange and brighter, and yellow gets desaturated.

Each camera profile is a trade off between the inextricable links between all the colours. With the adobe et el profiles someone (probably a machine) somewhere said ‘ok (say) blue looks a bit rubbish, but if I fix that there’s too much impact to (say) yellow so this will have to do’

Combine these global trade offs with the fact we all live in different places, different light, different subjects and some of us will always be disappointed.

It’s entirely possible that Leica will tweak things under the hood of the M11 to get nicer colours, but (historically) adobe don’t re-do their profiles.

C1 profiles work differently to adobe’s (icc vs dcp) have less limitation on the internal LUT and care less about whatever WB the camera set.

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8 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

Why would that be an issue? It's a custom name under User Presets.

I've changed the name and it doesn't make a difference, it does the same thing... 

If I apply it during import under Apply During Import then it works. 

I've never had this issue with any camera other than the M11, and I've been Lightroom user since Lightroom 1.0

I tried using a Preset as camera default. The Camera Calibration is applied (changed the red and blue primary), but Color Noise is not. The reason is likely that M11's DNG overrides the initial setting. M11's DNGs have the following instructions that are missing from M10-R's DNGs:

crs:ColorNoiseReduction="25" crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="50" crs:ShadowTint="0"

It seems that Lightroom first applies the raw defaults, then what is specified in the DNG, and then what is applied during import.

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43 minutes ago, SrMi said:

I tried using a Preset as camera default. The Camera Calibration is applied (changed the red and blue primary), but Color Noise is not. The reason is likely that M11's DNG overrides the initial setting. M11's DNGs have the following instructions that are missing from M10-R's DNGs:

crs:ColorNoiseReduction="25" crs:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="50" crs:ShadowTint="0"

It seems that Lightroom first applies the raw defaults, then what is specified in the DNG, and then what is applied during import.

Interesting. Thank you.

May I ask how you read those DNG instructions? Just curious to do the same.

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6 minutes ago, hmzimelka said:

Interesting. Thank you.

May I ask how you read those DNG instructions? Just curious to do the same.

I am using the "dng_validate -v file.DNG" command. I do not remember whether I built it for Mac or downloaded the binary from someplace.

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1 hour ago, Adam Bonn said:

@hmzimelka


https://www.adobe.com/go/dng_sdk
 

@SrMi

You found those entries in the maker notes / xmp toolkit section? Had the DNG been into LR/ACR already before you saw them?

Unfortunately, the SDK link does not include built targets, and building on a Mac does not seem trivial (though the instructions make it look simple).

Yes, the notes are in the XMP section, read from the SD card, and vary with ISO. For ISO 6400:

crd:ColorNoiseReduction="35" crd:ColorNoiseReductionSmoothness="50" crd:ShadowTint="5"

Leica knows the best initial values for those settings and overrides them.

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28 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Unfortunately, the SDK link does not include built targets, and building on a Mac does not seem trivial

I’m a fairly recent convert to Mac, but for a few things I’m glad I still have a windows machine on hand

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