M11 now supported by adobe

[elmars]

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Adobe Standard was available latest since August 2021. I know because I got the camera then for testing and I could use Adobe standard. As Adam said this would not be possible if there isn´t an Adobe profile.

The support of the M11 was not advertised because the M11 wasn´t on the market. Leica never denied a support, in opposite Jessko von Oeyhnhausen talked about Adobe standard somewhere.

[SrMi]

It has happened before that a new Leica camera was supported before it was announced. The only necessary update after the launch was to the public list of supported cameras. That is very convenient for early adopters.

The most recent Adobe update added support for M11’s PC.

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[Overgaard]

10 hours ago, Adam Bonn said:

Adobe will always be able to open a DNG file as there’s a profile embedded into this format (see “Leica M11 Profile” in your screen shots) which is created by the camera manufacturer (well whoever coded the DNG content, probably the manufacturer)

Adobe also creates profiles cameras. These have the display name ‘Adobe Standard’ and are created for use with a specific camera

There is a third (set of) adobe profile(s), these are called Adobe Color (and also adobe landscape, adobe portrait etc), these are generic profiles that work in conjunction with the adobe standard profile, but are generic in that one size fits all. So the adobe color (not standard) profile that the M11 uses is the same as the one the M10 uses, or the Sony or the Fuji or the canon etc etc*

It’s very rare for adobe to have a second go at making a new adobe standard profile (in the context of Leica M the last time they did this was for the M8)

AFAIK once adobe have made an adobe standard profile, they consider the camera supported because they have their own profile for it

………..

Adobe lens profiles.

Again… these tend to be (there’s a couple of exceptions) one profile file per lens.

So it does not work like this with a lot of files

Summilux 50 ASPH + M8

Summilux 50 ASPH + M9

Summilux 50 ASPH + M240

Summilux 50 ASPH + M262

Summilux 50 ASPH + M10

Summilux 50 ASPH + M11

etc etc

There’s just one lens profile file per lens and adobe uses that with all the cameras (my feeling here is that adobe tweaks the RAW data demosaicing to meet the values in the lens profile file, not vice versa)

In short adobe are probably as annoyed as you are that the M11 doesn’t play nice with their existing lens profile files.

========

*the boring tech bit here (but hey much like developing film it’s worth to know how this stuff works I think)

The adobe standard profile profiles the camera to colours that adobe think are great 😇, then the adobe color file contains a 3D LUT (or known as a colour table) that gets pasted on the top of the adobe standard file. So the generic adobe color file works with the camera specific adobe standard file.

So import RAW, identify make and model (specific to camera), apply adobe standard to demosaic (specific to camera), apply adobe color file (generic to all cameras)

The correct one to use (out of adobe color, adobe standard, leica m11) is the one that looks like the best starting point to you for that particular photo.

Yes, Adobe Standard as well is unchanged with Camera Raw 14.3

I think the simple conclusion is that the Leica M11 was profiled back in September 2021, and while we have been hoping for a glorious new profile that would make Leica M11 colors look great, we in fact had the final profile already, and only because Adobe updated their list of supported cameras now, we see and realize it was included in the September release of 13.4.

[Overgaard]

9 hours ago, elmars said:

 

The support of the M11 was not advertised because the M11 wasn´t on the market. Leica never denied a support, in opposite Jessko von Oeyhnhausen talked about Adobe standard somewhere.

Yes, Jessko talked about this in the Tech Talk in January, and then it didn't make sense. Now it does, because he was talking about it as if it was already supported (which it was).

[Adam Bonn]

2 hours ago, Overgaard said:

Yes, Adobe Standard as well is unchanged with Camera Raw 14.3

I think the simple conclusion is that the Leica M11 was profiled back in September 2021, and while we have been hoping for a glorious new profile that would make Leica M11 colors look great, we in fact had the final profile already, and only because Adobe updated their list of supported cameras now, we see and realize it was included in the September release of 13.4.

I don't have an m11 so I'm at the mercy of the DNGs I can harvest from the 'net... that said colours don't seem terrible... overall the files have a bit of a bit digital look for my personal tastes but then I say that about all the high mega pixel cameras!! The lens profile thing is a lumpy pill too swallow.. that needs fixing..

I have a hunch that as per previous cameras Leica might tweak the AWB math a bit if enough of you kick back about the colours

But yeah spot on Thorsten the only thing adobe have updated recently is the software release notes....

 

[SrMi]

7 minutes ago, Adam Bonn said:

I don't have an m11 so I'm at the mercy of the DNGs I can harvest from the 'net... that said colours don't seem terrible... overall the files have a bit of a bit digital look for my personal tastes but then I say that about all the high mega pixel cameras!! The lens profile thing is a lumpy pill too swallow.. that needs fixing..

I have a hunch that as per previous cameras Leica might tweak the AWB math a bit if enough of you kick back about the colours

But yeah spot on Thorsten the only thing adobe have updated recently is the software release notes....

 

… and added support for M11’s PC.

[Adam Bonn]

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12 minutes ago, SrMi said:

… and added support for M11’s PC.

fair enough if you say so (don't have an M11)

was PC on the M11 from the get go and did it get added in a FW update?

[Tailwagger]

1 hour ago, Adam Bonn said:

fair enough if you say so (don't have an M11)

was PC on the M11 from the get go and did it get added in a FW update?

It was added in the latest firmware update, but until the recent LR/CR update it was not usable.

[tashley]

I'm using LR Classic updated today to the latest version, on a Mac.

Lens distortion correction does not work for any of my lenses at all - whereas on my M10R files, they all work.

Does anyone have any ideas? This is kind of a reasonably big deal for me!

Thanks in advance!

Edited April 14, 2022 by tashley

[erudolph]

Tim, I agree.  This needs fixing.

 

It was reported (sorry I can’t recall by whom) that they had tried every lens in the correction menu and the 35mm APO-Summicron was the only one that actually applied a correction.

Edited April 14, 2022 by erudolph

[fil-m]

Moved to C1. Hard at first, took 2-3 months to adapt and "rewire" my brain. But now I am more productive with a faster stable software, better M11 images "out of the box". Turned the Adobe page and will soon terminate my subscription. Just hope that once I uninstall it from my Mac, it won't leave behind messy background processes.  

[tashley]

22 minutes ago, fil-m said:

Moved to C1. Hard at first, took 2-3 months to adapt and "rewire" my brain. But now I am more productive with a faster stable software, better M11 images "out of the box". Turned the Adobe page and will soon terminate my subscription. Just hope that once I uninstall it from my Mac, it won't leave behind messy background processes.  

I can’t do that - I’m too heavily invested in LR as my cataloging solution and C1 once, during the course of an upgrade, did terminal damage to the catalog I was trying to build in it. Never again. I use if for my Phase digital back files and that’s all. Adobe and Leica between them have to fix this.

Edited April 14, 2022 by tashley

[cbgrey]

Should this update have fixed the preview of RAW files when importing? (See attached). As far as I can tell, both LRC and ACR have been updated. 

Anything else I need to do to be able to see previews before import? (this is with the camera connected)

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[elmars]

The firmware is not ready in all aspects of connectivity („made for iphone“). This will come in autumn. 

[Kwesi]

4 hours ago, elmars said:

The firmware is not ready in all aspects of connectivity („made for iphone“). This will come in autumn. 

It would be nice to see “made for iPad Pro “ improvements also via USB C. For example direct connection to Lightroom mobile for importing photos without having first to go thru fotos. 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Kwesi
Added “pro”

[Photoworks]

14 hours ago, cbgrey said:

Should this update have fixed the preview of RAW files when importing? (See attached). As far as I can tell, both LRC and ACR have been updated. 

Anything else I need to do to be able to see previews before import? (this is with the camera connected)

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I suppose you are not using a USB-c cable that is 3.1 or better

[tom0511]

Lightroom classic just has a very bad profile for the M11 (or no profile?) . edited: maybe I am just doing something the wrong way and its me not Lightroom.

 I am a long time LR user and struggled with M11 colors the last weeks when comparing them to my M10r colors.

Today I tried C1 - M11 colors are much better. It might be mainly a WB setting, but in C1 you import the files and they look fine, in LR you import M11 files and they look digital and too cold.

I much prefer the simple user interface of LR, and I don't want to change because of my large catalog I have in LR, and I don't like spending hours and days to learn a new software. I want to take images, not to spend time learning new software.

But I am tired of the LR profiles. Why is adobe doing this to us? M10R profile is good, M11 not.

Am I doing something wrong? How do you guys get along with the M11 and LR classic?

 

Edited April 17, 2022 by tom0511

[Kwesi]

2 hours ago, tom0511 said:

Lightroom classic just has a very bad profile for the M11 (or no profile?). I am a long time LR user and struggled with M11 colors the last weeks when comparing them to my M10r colors.

Today I tried C1 - M11 colors are much better. It might be mainly a WB setting, but in C1 you import the files and they look fine, in LR you import M11 files and they look digital and too cold.

I much prefer the simple user interface of LR, and I don't want to change because of my large catalog I have in LR, and I don't like spending hours and days to learn a new software. I want to take images, not to spend time learning new software.

But I am tired of the LR profiles. Why is adobe doing this to us? M10R profile is good, M11 not.

Am I doing something wrong? How do you guys get along with the M11 and LR classic?

Are you using Leica’s own embedded profile? I find that I prefer it to “Adobe Standard” in most cases. 

[tom0511]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Kwesi:

Are you using Leica’s own embedded profile? I find that I prefer it to “Adobe Standard” in most cases. 

I find the embedded profile to make orange look red. So I mostly use adobe color or adobe standard. 
i feel sky blue sky looks slightly redtinted and the greens look too cold.

Do you have to do color adjustments in LR with M11 files?
 

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[LBJ2]

17 minutes ago, tom0511 said:

I find the embedded profile to make orange look red. So I mostly use adobe color or adobe standard. 
i feel sky blue sky looks slightly redtinted and the greens look too cold.

Do you have to do color adjustments in LR with M11 files?
 

Many if not all manufacturers seem to tweak what we perceive as color with almost every new model released sometimes intentionally, sometimes as a result of new hardware/software and/or a combination thereof implemented. If you shoot RAW/DNG might as well take a few minutes to learn some basic color adjustments with your favorite image editor. In the case of Lightroom Classic take a quick scroll through this reference:

https://expertphotography.com/color-correction-lightroom/

In my experience once you realize how subtle or dramatic a few simple clicks, sliders can do to image color you'll want to learn more...regardless of the camera/lens used or editing app of choice.