M11 Highlight-Weigted metering

[Photoworks]

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The Leica M11 firmware update 1.3.0.0  added the Highlight-weighted metering method .

I have been testing in all kinds of situations the new metering and in my opinion it does not work as intended.

I get better results with multi metering, what is your experience ?

 

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[SrMi]

How does the raw histogram look like (Rawdigger or similar)? Do you get any channels blown with multi-field or highlight-weighted metering?

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[GFONG]

IMO, I found that it is working as expected.

The purpose of highlight-weighted metering is to avoid the overblown highlight. By referring to the highlight-weighted sample on the right hand side,   the camera chose the maximum value of highlight area. Therefore you see the brighter foreground. For spot, center-weighted and multi-field metering, it still has possible to get the overblown highlight in some situations.

[Photoworks]

When I use it on the sl2 it is more like the sample in leica manual. 

When I use the M11 it over exposes more the multi. Move time that not

I have been comparing images all week in all lighting. And more often the are highlight overexposed and non recoverable..

[elmars]

In my opinion highlight weighted metering has to get better. Sometimes it overexposes in very simple scenery. But what bothers me most that I have no real idea how it works. Often it exposes brighter than multifield. I would never expect this and I don‘t know why.

I don‘t use it anymore because it is unreliable and unpredictable. 

[LeicaR10]

Photoworks,  I sent you a PM.  r/ Mark

[ck1]

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A great concept, but currently poorly implemented. 
As others have found, every so often the camera overexposes one frame by c. 2+ stops and then immediately settle down. 
Used this mode for one long afternoon in this mode and it’s not yet ready (unless you’re happy losing occasional frames). 

[LocalHero1953]

If what you are showing are SOOC images, then I am not surprised at your results. Your left hand set of 6 show that highlight weighting under exposes the whole scene. You need post processing to balance out the exposures: typically increase exposure/brightness, lift shadows/blacks, while holding/maintaining highlights and whites. TBH I can't see what's happening with the right hand set of three - it could be just the same.

The basic principle of highlight weighted exposure is that digital sensors (and reversal films before them) far too easily blow highlights but retain detail in shadows even when it is not visible SOOC. Better to protect highlights rather than shadows, at the expense of more work in post.

I don't use highlight weighting (SL2-S) because it gives me too much work to do in post processing, and I can protect highlights myself, when occasionally needed, by using the histogram.

Edited April 9, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[Photoworks]

4 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Your left hand set of 6 show that highlight weighting under exposes the whole scene. You need post processing to balance out the exposures

the 6 picture from the left are from Leica instruction PDF, and does examples I would predict correct exposure in the Highlights and darker shadows.

I would be happy if that is what I get. The images on the right are my images.. only 3 but I have so many of them and they are all the same..

[Ktsa5239]

From my tests, it seems to work on bright sky type landscape scenes but fails for more complicated scenes like indoors with a bright window. 

[SrMi]

Are you guys seeing blown highlights with highlight-weighted metering where you see none with multi-field?

[Photoworks]

1 hour ago, SrMi said:

Are you guys seeing blown highlights with highlight-weighted metering where you see none with multi-field?

I see that Multi preserve highlights. when in highlight-weighted highlight blow out and not even in processing It can't be recovered..

But the point that it does not save the HL.

[hdmesa]

The highlight-based metering in my SL2-S is never fooled, so the same feature in the M11 may need to be updated in firmware. On the SL2-S, it exposes so well for the highlights, that often I cannot raise the exposure far enough with exposure comp if my subject is in a shadow area.

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, Photoworks said:

I see that Multi preserve highlights. when in highlight-weighted highlight blow out and not even in processing It can't be recovered..

But the point that it does not save the HL.

Thanks for the answer.
Multi-field never preserves highlights for me. I often have to use highlight warnings and the histogram to add corrections. I assume that you meant that the multi-field metering preserved highlights in your example.
I do not have enough experience with highlight-weighted metering to chime in.

[LEGEND]

On what value did you set the highlight clipping point in the clipping warning?
Perhaps this somehow influence the working of the highlight-weighted metering
and this is the reason that some of us have different results... I don't use this so 
it is off...

Just a thought...

Nikola

[Photoworks]

4 hours ago, LEGEND said:

On what value did you set the highlight clipping point in the clipping warning?
Perhaps this somehow influence the working of the highlight-weighted metering
and this is the reason that some of us have different results... I don't use this so 
it is off...

Just a thought...

Nikola

that does not make any difference .

I would not aspect it too either , plus if it did it would influence the readying in all the other modes.

[LEGEND]

4 hours ago, Photoworks said:

that does not make any difference .

I would not aspect it too either , plus if it did it would influence the readying in all the other modes.

You are right...
Than it  must be a problem with the firmware...
I am sure that Leica can resolve this issue with next FW update...

Until it works I will continue to use my M11 in full manual mode...
I had all SL models before and get used to reference the histogram 
for exposer reading, everything else was set manually...
It would me very useful to have all relevant informations displayed 
in the rangefinder like the Pixxi camera does...
If this can only be a histogram or even better waveform I would be very happy...  

[scott kirkpatrick]

I've explored  the highlight weighted metering in the M11 1.3.0 .0 a bit  I have an SL2-S, but haven't compared them carefully (yet).  My sense of the algorithm hidden inside the M11 is that it exposes somewhat to the right (ESTTR), dropping the shadows and bringing down the highlights to avoid clipping, but it doesn't do it absolutely.  So postprocessing both highlights and shadows is needed.  I was out in lovely sunshine with puffy white clouds today, set exposure compensation in the camera to 0, and the best exposures still required 1/2 to 1 stop of exposure reduction, AND maximum shadow uplift.  I might have gotten better results with exposure compensation of -0.3 or -0.7 stops in the camera.  Here's one example:

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Apparently, the M11 uses a different algorithm than the SL2 and 2-S, which seem to give a stronger correction.  Also, I have done a few experiments which suggest that the M11 cares more about bright spots in the center of the frame than those at the edge.  The example in the writeup suggests to me that their intended application is a bride's white dress, when she is surrounded by groomsmen in black suits.  She'll be in the center  I think those of us who care about dramatic clouded skies need to make our wishes felt, and surely this will evolve in future releases.

Edited April 10, 2022 by scott kirkpatrick

[scott kirkpatrick]

2 hours ago, scott kirkpatrick said:

 

 

sorry, duplicate -- delete

Edited April 10, 2022 by scott kirkpatrick

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[augustwest100]

On 4/10/2022 at 4:41 PM, scott kirkpatrick said:

I've explored  the highlight weighted metering in the M11 1.3.0 .0 a bit  I have an SL2-S, but haven't compared them carefully (yet).  My sense of the algorithm hidden inside the M11 is that it exposes somewhat to the right (ESTTR), dropping the shadows and bringing down the highlights to avoid clipping, but it doesn't do it absolutely.  So postprocessing both highlights and shadows is needed.  I was out in lovely sunshine with puffy white clouds today, set exposure compensation in the camera to 0, and the best exposures still required 1/2 to 1 stop of exposure reduction, AND maximum shadow uplift.  I might have gotten better results with exposure compensation of -0.3 or -0.7 stops in the camera.  Here's one example:

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

Apparently, the M11 uses a different algorithm than the SL2 and 2-S, which seem to give a stronger correction.  Also, I have done a few experiments which suggest that the M11 cares more about bright spots in the center of the frame than those at the edge.  The example in the writeup suggests to me that their intended application is a bride's white dress, when she is surrounded by groomsmen in black suits.  She'll be in the center  I think those of us who care about dramatic clouded skies need to make our wishes felt, and surely this will evolve in future releases.

This makes sense based on my experiences - I can only “force” the highlight priority to function similar to the SL2S by pointing the focus patch directly at a light bulb. Once I move off center a bit, the image goes the opposite way and becomes a bright highlight. Maybe they algorithm is set to read from the center. It almost feels like switching to highlight priority moves the metering method to spot or center, rather than being like a multi field exposure that just moves the overall exposure down until any blown highlights are protected. On the SL2S it is sort of the opposite - often I felt the highlight priority on SL2S would severely darken an otherwise nicely metered shot just because of a bright light somewhere on the edge of the frame. Perhaps they can have “center weighted highlight priority” and “multi field highlight priority.” For now it seems to work best to use exposure compensation along with highlight priority or just with multi field.

Edited May 17, 2022 by augustwest100