I’ve now had 3 x sl2 bodies fail.

[John Smith]

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2 hours ago, Gavin Cato said:

So when it happens, you are in mechanical shutter mode, and you hear a bit of a nasty shutter noise.

Now the camera locks up, and says in red letters "system error". I'll attach a photo.

Also the shutter is stuck over the sensor - normally you can see the sensor when the lens is off. But it's like it's physically stuck over the sensor and the camera can't move it. I'm only guessing here btw.

The only thing I think of that I do differently is I probably use them more (i.e. 90-125 weddings a year) and I use electronic shutter a lot (outdoors).

 

 

 

 

 

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I'd wait to see what Leica says about the repairs before doing anything else. Photographers are pretty creative when it comes to pushing the limits of technology as manufacturers are probably facing a lot of issues of first impression when it comes to electronic shutters, autofocus, etc. 

Edited April 7, 2022 by John Smith

[BernardC]

Do you have a cleaning routine? I'm asking because it seems like a mechanical fault, and sensor cleaning is the main "touch point" with the shutter.

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[wizard]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb frame-it:

Panasonic probably has a lot more experience with camera electronics that "work", than Leica does.

I fully agree, but do you seriously believe that the electronics within Leica's SL2 and SL2-S bodies were developed by Leica themselves? I would rather think that they, just like most of the remaining hardware, are much the same as in the corresponding Panasonic bodies, of course with adapted software specifically developed by Leica.

Edited April 7, 2022 by wizard

[michali]

6 hours ago, Gavin Cato said:

Some of you might remember earlier I posted that I had a sl2 body fail with the red system error message. Then shortly afterwards my 2nd sl2 body failed. 
 

Because of the very long repair times I bought 2 x sl2-s bodies at considerable expense. So I now own 4 x sl2 bodies. I’m a wedding photographer.
 

Well yesterday Leica messaged me to say the first sl2 body is repaired. Took pretty much exactly 4 months by the time it got sent to Germany. They are posting it to me and I’ll probably get it in a couple of days.

I’m at a wedding today and one of my sl2-s bodies - 4 months old - just failed in the exact same way.

What on earth!!?? I bought into this system knowing the af was not up there with Sony but assuming the hardware at least would be strong and well built.  

I mostly use these cameras in silent mode / electronic shutter outdoors and switch to mechanical shutter indoors. So this body that failed would have hardly any mechanical actuations on it and again is only 4 months old. 

I really don’t know what to do. I love these lenses but can’t stay on the system if they are so ridiculously unreliable. 

 

I assume that you're using a flash system when you're shooting weddings. If so, could this be a possible cause of the failures that you're experiencing?

[douglas fry]

It does seem odd to happen to several cameras. The only variable left are the SD cards which brand do you use? Maybe in some way they are incompatible?. I am also a professional photographer and shoot about 300 corporate shoots a year so definitely hammer my cameras and they have all worked smoothly without a glitch from the SL1 to the SL2-S. 

Try using SD Formatter https://www.sdcard.org/downloads/formatter/ and do the deep format. I currently use Angelbird SD cards but Sandisk Pro cards are also recommended.



 

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, wizard said:

I fully agree, but do you seriously believe that the electronics within Leica's SL2 and SL2-S bodies were developed by Leica themselves? I would rather think that they, just like most of the remaining hardware, are much the same as in the corresponding Panasonic bodies, of course with adapted software specifically developed by Leica.

I'm not sure what you mean by "electronics", but the SL came out well before any similar Panasonic body, and it was based on the S, which came out in 2008. Leica also had digital camera experience dating back to 1998's S1, and "electronic" experience well before that.

I don't mean to imply that these cameras were developed 100% in-house (which some people expect, but it would be anachronistic for any modern manufactured product), just that Leica has a long track record, and surely not all of that is based upon other companies' work.

[LocalHero1953]

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For the record:

• Leica SL: launched October 2015
• L-mount alliance announced: September 2018
• Panasonic S1: launched March 2019

Panasonic had little or no experience of anything larger than MFT before the S1. The relationship with Leica goes a long way back, but who knows which direction  the IP was flowing within each camera subsystem (or with the SL2).

Edited April 7, 2022 by LocalHero1953

[Olaf_ZG]

Ouch, I feel your pain @Gavin Cato, being an ex wedding tog I do understand the fear you have and trust you have lost.

 In my pro time I used contax, rollei and nikon and never a camera failed on me. Even not after dropping and or dumpling it into water.

For private use, later on I went fuji, no problems (knocking on wood). 
 

my first Leica, a Q, had the evf problem. Warranty yes, but still.

I guess Leica is not made (anymore) for pro use and the “quick” service time confirms they even think like this.

In your case, I would try a s1 series as suggested here.

[Gavin Cato]

5 hours ago, BernardC said:

Do you have a cleaning routine? I'm asking because it seems like a mechanical fault, and sensor cleaning is the main "touch point" with the shutter.

I've never cleaned any of these sensors. I primarily shoot at wide apertures so a sensor needs to be truly filthy for me to start seeing dirt on it

 

4 hours ago, douglas fry said:

It does seem odd to happen to several cameras. The only variable left are the SD cards which brand do you use? Maybe in some way they are incompatible?. I am also a professional photographer and shoot about 300 corporate shoots a year so definitely hammer my cameras and they have all worked smoothly without a glitch from the SL1 to the SL2-S. 

I use the sony tough series SD cards but honestly I can't imagine how it could be this. Once the camera has this problem, it's completely locked and it will give the error regardless if there is a lens or sd card inserted. 

 

4 hours ago, michali said:

assume that you're using a flash system when you're shooting weddings. If so, could this be a possible cause of the failures that you're experiencing?

No I don't use flash at weddings on the Leicas. I shoot ambient most of the day and after the first dance when the drunks enter the dance floor I use a Fuji xt4 with a flash to do dancing flash shots. This is because the Fuji has really good low light AF and the leica can be near unusable in the true dark.

I'm absolutely stumped and I have 7 weddings in the next 9 days (this is the last of the covid rescheduling backlog) so I'm wondering if another body will fail and if I should go on a sony shopping spree. Like I said earlier, I absolutely love these leica lenses and files. But I can't have bodies failing on a regular basis. This is absurd. I've never had anything remotely like it with another camera brand in roughly 16 years of wedding shooting.

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by Gavin Cato

[nicci78]

After long experience in after sales. If different products failed with the same person. Something in its environment is the culprit. 
There is no reason why they all failed the same way. 
You should investigate and found out what is frying your SL2 electronics. 
Sony tough cards has a recall once, for being out of specs and causing issues with cameras. 
 

How do you charge your camera ? Directly through USB-C ? 
 

Do you have strong magnets around you ? 
Do you use motorcycles ? 
etc… 

Really just check the unexpected. And change your habits, including your camera bag. 

[Gavin Cato]

Sure, it could be me. I'd love to know what though. I've been shootings weddings for over 16 years with a variety of gear and this is the only gear ever mucking up like this.

I have 4 x of the genuine leica sl battery chargers, and thats how the batteries are charged.

I use a think tank airport manager bag heavily padded, and most of my gear still looks new - especially the lenses.

No magnets and the wife won't let me get a motorcycle.

There is no way the sony SD cards are causing a camera to mechanically fail. Sure, a bad sd card might give corrupt files, the odd camera hang etc - but a mechanical fault completely locking the camera up permanently so it needs to be flown to Germany? I don't think so.

My gut feel is these cameras just aren't up to doing 3-4 weddings a week. Which kills me, because I love them (when they work!) and I love using different stuff to my competition. 

 

[frame-it]

7 hours ago, wizard said:

I fully agree, but do you seriously believe that the electronics within Leica's SL2 and SL2-S bodies were developed by Leica themselves? I would rather think that they, just like most of the remaining hardware, are much the same as in the corresponding Panasonic bodies, of course with adapted software specifically developed by Leica.

well, i try my best not to assume...

but look at it this way, so many users are using the SL series with mech shutter for some years

i sometimes take over a 1000+ shots in a few hours, sometimes 3-4 times a week

but one person who uses the ES a lot and then the MS is getting camera failures...so its either a problem with electronics of overusing the ES, OR as someone mentioned a very serious cleaning error [which i doubt]

Edited April 7, 2022 by frame-it

[Photoworks]

Like mentioned before I would try different cards.. The Sony card did have some issues on the camera. If you get new one please stay away from lexar..

That has been the problem in different situations...

Unfortunately Leica doesn't say what was the problem to cause the repair, that would be helpful.

I easily do 10K photos a week and I have been using 2 SL2 since they came out little over 2 years.

I use the case. I use the think tank international roller bag and I have noticed some screws from the lens month coming slowly off from the vibration of sidewalk..

In any case good luck in finishing your weddings. I have looked at the site and you images a nice.

[caissa]

I have no clue what could be the reason for your problems. (My cameras work alright since I have them.)

But I get the impression it is something special about the environment. For example do you have anything with strong magnets ? Do you have a car (where do you place your equipment ? On the seat or in the trunk ?) with strong magnetic fields ?

Do you live close to a transformer station or next to a power line (these big overland lines), or an electric railway station ?

I once worked close to a railway station and often saw huge electric disturbances (mainly in the displays with tubes) when heavy trains were starting or stopping. (Electric trains)

I’m only guessing ....

Edited April 8, 2022 by caissa

[michali]

7 hours ago, frame-it said:

well, i try my best not to assume......

.......but one person who uses the ES a lot and then the MS is getting camera failures...so its either a problem with electronics of overusing the ES, OR as someone mentioned a very serious cleaning error [which i doubt]

I do mainly wildlife photography with my SL2 & SL2-S & long lenses ranging from 90-280mm, 400mm to 150-600mm, plus tele converters.  Due to shutter slap/shock I use the Electronic Shutter 99% of the time, my cameras are both set to ES. In addition, due to the harsh environments that I operate in, the cameras get hammered on safaris.  

The bottom line is that  I've had no issues whatsoever as the result of over using the Electronic Shutter.

@Gavin Cato it will be interesting to see what Leica says was the cause of failure on the camera that they're returning to you.

[Gavin Cato]

2 minutes ago, michali said:

Gavin Cato it will be interesting to see what Leica says was the cause of failure on the camera that they're returning to you.

Agree. Thanks. 
 

I sent them a email yesterday about the new failure and haven’t heard back yet. 
 

[Gavin Cato]

1 hour ago, caissa said:

environment. For example do you have anything with strong magnets ? Do you have a car (where do you place your equipment ? On the seat or in the trunk ?) with strong magnetic fields ?

I don’t think so. I do drive a Tesla but I also drove the same car with Sony gear with no problem. Thanks for trying to help though I do appreciate it. 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Gavin Cato

[LeicaR10]

Gavin,  I agree with Douglas Fry's post #25 about the SD card formatter.  I brought this up a few months ago to you when  you had problems with another SL2 body.  The past forum threads have pointed to SD card issues and need for using the card fomatter.  You use the cameras a lot...I and many others have not had issues as you described over the number of SL2 bodies.  I did have an issue as you described and mentioned so to you before.  It was the SD card and needing formatting.  Professionally, I only use either San Disk Pro or Delkin Black cards.  The SL2 can get hot with continuous use.  Like any computer, heat can really affect the electronics...the SL2 is a computer.  Might be time to replace a card or two with a San Disk Pro card 64 GB max, use the formatter and reset the camera(s) if it bricks up.  Use the same card once its proven itself in the camera.  Keep a couple backups.  Last, I use the electronic shutter in continous mode for shooting salling and surf life saver boat action.  Never had an issue since with the right cards and formatting.  Sorry to hear your issues with the SL2s, it is a great camera and certainly can stand the pressures of commercial work such as weddings.  Hope this helps.  r/ Mark

[hansvons]

The Leica SL2(S) seems to be a bit picky when it comes to SD cards. Before you send it in I‘d rule that out. I once had that error too; reformatted the SD card and it never came back.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Gavin Cato]

Unfortunately There is no way to reset the camera or access any menus or anything similar. The camera is hard locked with the shutter stuck over the sensor.

turning the camera on with without a SD card it’s still locked. 

As a idea how dead it is Leica Australia first send repairs to a local repair centre. If they can’t fix it it goes to Germany. It went to Germany.