Strange ... (Typ 007)

[analog-digital]

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Here's what I noticed for the first time a few days ago:

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This happens when moving the lens and pressing the "5-way" button.

Is this normal or ......??

[Sarnian]

The manual doesn't do a very good job of explaining this function so I've never really understood it. 

What's written here sounds good, though: "The 24mm Super-Elmar is an absolute champ for wide angle landscape photography. Paired with the live DOF readout on the top display of the S007 and S3, I can set my aperture to f/11 and dial in a perfect hyperfocal distance in seconds. Everything from 2.5m to infinity is tack sharp for every single shot, freeing me to concentrate on composition, framing and exposure. The 24mm is also my go-to for northern lights photography and architectural interiors."

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[Stuart Richardson]

It is a subjective estimation of the area "in focus" in the picture. Focus is a plane, so it is only truly "focused" at one point along that plane (which can be curved). The hyperfocal distance measurement listed is an estimate as to what will appear sharp. You don't have the greatest example there, as you are focused really close, which diminishes depth of field. But if you have a further distance, it might say "focus 27m" back "infinity" close 5.7m or something like that. Those numbers of totally pulled out of my head. That would mean that your focus is set at 27m, and everything between 5.7 and infinity are sharp. But that is highly dependent on enlargement size and within that range it will still vary...typically being sharper near to the focus point and sharper behind the focus point than in front of it. On my cameras I have found these numbers to not be that accurate with respect to actual distances. It is a great idea which for me does not actually work. I think it is most useful for photography where you cannot achieve reliable focus, such as when photographing at night. But my advice would be to bring a powerful flashlight to shine on the subject to achieve focus and then photograph after turning it off.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[analog-digital]

In that case it is a setting in the menu?????

I have not changed anything, but I will check it once.

What makes me wonder is that it also happens when I just move the lens. For example, when changing the lens. This also appears on the display......

[Jeff S]

David Farkas (Leica Miami/Red Dot Forum) loves the feature.  As he wrote long ago in his S007 review… 

 

"Perhaps one of the most useful additions, especially for landscape photography, is the live DOF readout on the top LCD. When you half press the shutter release, three distances are displayed: near, focus and far. Between the near and far is your effective depth of field. The range is dynamic and based on distance to subject, aperture and focal length. Obviously, this is most useful when using wide lenses at smaller apertures, rather than longer lenses at wide apertures. To determine hyperfocal distance, just adjust the focus on the lens as far forward as you can, while still keeping the back reading at infinity." (David Farkas)

Jeff

[helged]

To follow up on @Stuart Richardson and @Jeff S, and in my experience, I rather stop down the lens an additional 1-1.5 stop to ensure 'acceptable' focus. To avoid diffraction softness, focus stacking can be used (for static subjects and, preferably, when using tripod). 

[davidmknoble]

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I’m going to say this yet another way.  Every lens has a different depth of field, and every f/stop on every lens has a different depth of field.  Even more, focusing near and far has a different depth of field.  Leica used to publish a PDF for each lens on their website, but they have changed it, and you cannot even find some of the S lenses listed anymore, let alone the PDF’s.

In any event, the later S cameras (I don’t remember if the first models did this) show the depth of filed for the mounted lens, at the current f/stop and current focus range.  To show this on the top screen, one has to press and hold the shutter button lightly, without taking a photograph, or turn the manual focus on the S lens barrel.

It is probably one of the most useful tools I have seen and has worked very well for my landscape work.  I can setup the view on my tripod, set an f/stop to try and turn the focus ring until the back just turns to infinity.  The front focus is then as close as it can get for that f/stop all the way through infinity.  The focus number is where the lens is ‘spot on’ and if the lens were perfect (and none are) I could open the f/stop all the way and it would still be focused at that point however narrow the depth of field.

Alternatively, if I am shooting something I do not want to be focused all the way to infinity, I can first focus electronically on the subject and then manually move the focus plan forward or backward.  So, if the display shows ‘front focus’ 1.2m, ‘focus’ 1.6m and ‘back focus’ 2.0m, the total depth of filed is 0.8m (2.0m less 1.2m).  I could manually bring the ‘front focus’ to about 1.5m or 1.6m  and I wil have maximum depth to the back of the object (the ‘back focus’ will be about 0.8m further back, or 1.6m + 0.8m = 2.4m).  When focusing, especially electronically, the lens picks the middle of the depth of field to focus to, it’s just physics.  WIth the S you can put that depth anywhere.

 

[Stuart Richardson]

I completely agree with you in theory, but it has not really met out for me in practice. First, the listed distances are not actually correct. In other words, in checking on live view, the measurement might say infinity, but live view on a distant object like the moon or a mountain range several km away will not be at "infinity", but at a closer distance. I have also tested with a tape measure and found that it was not spot on, at least with my camera and lenses. The camera did focus properly, however. Regarding DOF, it is not a binary concept. Things are not in focus and then suddenly out. The "hyperfocal distance" is an estimation that can vary wildly based on how large you print, how much you crop and what your expectations of sharpness are. I really wish this worked better, but at least for my photography I found this tool to be somewhat lacking. Outside of using the Scheimpflug principle for view cameras, the best method I have found is still to focus on the most important compositional element in the frame, and choose an F stop that gives the best blend of sharpness, separation and freedom from diffraction. Unfortunately I don't think that is something that can be reduced to a hyperfocal distance chart or numbers on the screen. Perhaps if Leica published something about what those numbers actually mean based on enlargement ratios, and/or gave users an ability to tweak the tolerances themselves?

[Jeff S]

3 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I’m going to say this yet another way.  Every lens has a different depth of field, and every f/stop on every lens has a different depth of field.  Even more, focusing near and far has a different depth of field.  Leica used to publish a PDF for each lens on their website, but they have changed it, and you cannot even find some of the S lenses listed anymore, let alone the PDF’s.

In any event, the later S cameras (I don’t remember if the first models did this) show the depth of filed for the mounted lens, at the current f/stop and current focus range.  To show this on the top screen, one has to press and hold the shutter button lightly, without taking a photograph, or turn the manual focus on the S lens barrel.

It is probably one of the most useful tools I have seen and has worked very well for my landscape work.  I can setup the view on my tripod, set an f/stop to try and turn the focus ring until the back just turns to infinity.  The front focus is then as close as it can get for that f/stop all the way through infinity.  The focus number is where the lens is ‘spot on’ and if the lens were perfect (and none are) I could open the f/stop all the way and it would still be focused at that point however narrow the depth of field.

Alternatively, if I am shooting something I do not want to be focused all the way to infinity, I can first focus electronically on the subject and then manually move the focus plan forward or backward.  So, if the display shows ‘front focus’ 1.2m, ‘focus’ 1.6m and ‘back focus’ 2.0m, the total depth of filed is 0.8m (2.0m less 1.2m).  I could manually bring the ‘front focus’ to about 1.5m or 1.6m  and I wil have maximum depth to the back of the object (the ‘back focus’ will be about 0.8m further back, or 1.6m + 0.8m = 2.4m).  When focusing, especially electronically, the lens picks the middle of the depth of field to focus to, it’s just physics.  WIth the S you can put that depth anywhere.

 

Post #5… the Farkas quote describes the feature for the S007.

Jeff

[davidmknoble]

12 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I completely agree with you in theory, but it has not really met out for me in practice. First, the listed distances are not actually correct. In other words, in checking on live view, the measurement might say infinity, but live view on a distant object like the moon or a mountain range several km away will not be at "infinity", but at a closer distance. I have also tested with a tape measure and found that it was not spot on, at least with my camera and lenses. The camera did focus properly, however. Regarding DOF, it is not a binary concept. Things are not in focus and then suddenly out. The "hyperfocal distance" is an estimation that can vary wildly based on how large you print, how much you crop and what your expectations of sharpness are. I really wish this worked better, but at least for my photography I found this tool to be somewhat lacking. Outside of using the Scheimpflug principle for view cameras, the best method I have found is still to focus on the most important compositional element in the frame, and choose an F stop that gives the best blend of sharpness, separation and freedom from diffraction. Unfortunately I don't think that is something that can be reduced to a hyperfocal distance chart or numbers on the screen. Perhaps if Leica published something about what those numbers actually mean based on enlargement ratios, and/or gave users an ability to tweak the tolerances themselves?

Interesting.  I have used this on my S007 and mostly the 30, 35 and 45, but the infinity has always been good.  I use it for landscape and it has always given me a sharp horizon.  I did buy an S 180mm once that needed calibrated because it was way off, but once it came back was spot on.  I don’t know how it all works, but it has been terrific in my landscape work.  Sorry it hasn’t panned out for you.

[ZHNL]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:38 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

I completely agree with you in theory, but it has not really met out for me in practice. First, the listed distances are not actually correct. In other words, in checking on live view, the measurement might say infinity, but live view on a distant object like the moon or a mountain range several km away will not be at "infinity", but at a closer distance. I have also tested with a tape measure and found that it was not spot on, at least with my camera and lenses. The camera did focus properly, however. Regarding DOF, it is not a binary concept. Things are not in focus and then suddenly out. The "hyperfocal distance" is an estimation that can vary wildly based on how large you print, how much you crop and what your expectations of sharpness are. I really wish this worked better, but at least for my photography I found this tool to be somewhat lacking. Outside of using the Scheimpflug principle for view cameras, the best method I have found is still to focus on the most important compositional element in the frame, and choose an F stop that gives the best blend of sharpness, separation and freedom from diffraction. Unfortunately I don't think that is something that can be reduced to a hyperfocal distance chart or numbers on the screen. Perhaps if Leica published something about what those numbers actually mean based on enlargement ratios, and/or gave users an ability to tweak the tolerances themselves?

+1

i tested this feature many time at the time I still have 007 and conclude this is not reliable feature so that it is useless for my user case. 
 

I’d rather remember every lens infinity mark which is far more useful than this. It is not accurate enough for wide open shot due to its AF lens in nature implementation. However, it is reliable for landscape shot after f5.6. 

[analog-digital]

Am 4.4.2022 um 18:27 schrieb ZHNL:

+1

i tested this feature many time at the time I still have 007 and conclude this is not reliable feature so that it is useless for my user case. 
 

I’d rather remember every lens infinity mark which is far more useful than this. It is not accurate enough for wide open shot due to its AF lens in nature implementation. However, it is reliable for landscape shot after f5.6. 

Can you once just move the attached lens a bit in the port of the camera?

Then appears with your 007 also in the display "Back - Focus - Front" 

Like my picture at the very beginning?

I'm not interested in understanding the "Back - Focus - Front", but ONLY whether the display is activated when the lens is moved or whether this is a blur.

[Sarnian]

15 hours ago, analog-digital said:

Can you once just move the attached lens a bit in the port of the camera?

I'm not interested in understanding the "Back - Focus - Front", but ONLY whether the display is activated when the lens is moved or whether this is a blur.

The "Back - Focus - Front" readout is displayed automatically when you turn the focus ring (and/or zoom ring when using the 30-90mm). You don't need to press any other button to actuate it.

Edited April 7, 2022 by Sarnian

[Jeff S]

Or apparently when the shutter is half pressed (Farkas method).

Jeff

[Sarnian]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Or apparently when the shutter is half pressed (Farkas method).

Jeff

Yes, but only when the camera is set to "MF" in Focus Mode.

[Jeff S]

9 minutes ago, Sarnian said:

Yes, but only when the camera is set to "MF" in Focus Mode.

That’s what I do on my SL2, with back button AF.  
 

Jeff

[analog-digital]

Am 7.4.2022 um 20:19 schrieb Sarnian:

Yes, but only when the camera is set to "MF" in Focus Mode.

Interesting.

However, my settings are not MF, but:

AFs
Aperture Priority (A)

[Sarnian]

10 minutes ago, analog-digital said:

Interesting.

However, my settings are not MF, but:

AFs
Aperture Priority (A)

Jeff is correct. When you press the Back Button AF when in Afs (A) it also does this. Your camera is not malfunctioning (but my brain is!)

Edited April 9, 2022 by Sarnian