Oscar Barnack's very own Leica 0-Series no.105 from the Leitz Museum in Wetzlar is being auctioned

[wizard]

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vor 16 Minuten schrieb willeica:

For me it was and is a side issue as the article is largely concerned with an important historical camera and an upcoming auction and we all know what the ‘R’ means in our own languages.

Quite correct, but since you had explicitly asked for assistance on this point in one of your above posts, I took the time and effort to specifically reply, in an attempt to provide the requested assistance. And since you quoted Lars above in #48, it seems you have bothered Lars already 😉.

Cheers, Andy

Edited April 28, 2022 by wizard

[willeica]

17 minutes ago, wizard said:

Quite correct, but since you had explicitly asked for assistance on this point in one of your above posts, I took the time and effort to specifically reply, in an attempt to provide the requested assistance. And since you quoted Lars above in #48, it seems you have bothered Lars already 😉.

Cheers, Andy

Thanks Andy.

William 

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[zeitz]

5 hours ago, Matlock said:

As far as charging is concerned, when charging was introduced in the UK

Most museums in the US charge admissions.  While the Smithsonian National Zoo is free, the San Diego Zoo is $67, the Columbus OH zoo is $22, and the Brooklyn Zoo is $10.  (Chicago's Lincoln Park Zoo is free, as is the St. Louis Zoo.) The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York is $25.  The George Eastman House is $18.  The Chicago Museum of Science and Industry is $22.  The Art Institute of Chicago is $25.

[Pyrogallol]

Fritz Vith Leica Handbook 1930 page 28.

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[willeica]

3 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Fritz Vith Leica Handbook 1930 page 28.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Lars never forgets anything that he has seen and I have found that out on numerous occasions. Let's just say that everyone is right, as we all know what the 'R' position means! 

William 

[Al Brown]

@willeica just a friendly question - are you associated with Leitz Photographica Auction, Leica Shop or Leica? What is your reason for the article (which I cordially salute) and linking them?

[willeica]

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13 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

@willeica just a friendly question - are you associated with Leitz Photographica Auction, Leica Shop or Leica? What is your reason for the article (which I cordially salute) and linking them?

I have no association with Leitz/ Leica other than that of a Leica / vintage camera enthusiast. They pay me nothing, but I pay them a lot of money in order to acquire and expand my collection. I do a lot of work in the area of photography, all unpaid or pro bono. This includes being chair of the largest photographic gallery in my country and being VP of the International Leica Society. The point behind the article is that this is a most interesting example of a significant historical Leica. I do a lot of other things in this area. It you click on my name on Macfilos, you will see that I have written 46 articles for that site alone.

William 

[wizard]

Am 28.4.2022 um 13:33 schrieb nf3996:

Section 2 of the German text in the small credit-card size instruction leaflet for the 0-Series replica refers to a 'Ruckspulknopf'. And German-language instructions for at least some early Leicas refer to a 'Ruckwickelknopf'. Neither specifically states which the 'R' by the lever stands for.

So judging by what you have found and what Pyrogallol has posted above, it seems that the term 'Rückwickelknopf' and the associated term 'Rückwicklung' was indeed common when the 0-series Leica and other early Leica screw mount cameras were marketed. At least from the 70s of the last century onwards, however, the term 'Rückspulknopf' and 'Rückspulung' have become the common industry terms. The meaning, of course, has not changed, and both terms will be correctly understood. My interest in this whole issue springs from my current profession, in which even slight differences of terms may mean that you win or lose a case, hence my insisting.

Oh, and the 'R' is simply the abbreviation of any one of the above terms, whichever one is considered most appropriate.

Andy

Edited April 29, 2022 by wizard
addition of text

[maxfairclough]

21 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Fritz Vith Leica Handbook 1930 page 28.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

It seems to me everything is pointing to the debate being favoured of "rewind". And with all due respect, the other party is being stubborn in not wanting to be corrected, regardless of what he recalled of said persons. It seems well documented here and supported by german speakers.

My two cents. Outside looking in.

[wizard]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb willeica:

Lars never forgets anything that he has seen

So do I, but I have never seen that before. Learning something new every day, even at my age 🙂.

[willeica]

15 minutes ago, maxfairclough said:

It seems to me everything is pointing to the debate being favoured of "rewind". And with all due respect, the other party is being stubborn in not wanting to be corrected, regardless of what he recalled of said persons. It seems well documented here and supported by german speakers.

My two cents. Outside looking in.

I’m not sure if I am the ‘other party’ but I am the author of the article. What is being debated here is a quote that I used in the article from a widely respected book which was published 30 years ago. Of course, it means ‘rewind’ in English.

William 

[wizard]

vor einer Stunde schrieb maxfairclough:

It seems to me everything is pointing to the debate being favoured of "rewind".

To be fair, I think there was always consensus that 'R' stands for the rewind function or position. The dispute focussed on the exact German word forming the basis for the abbreviation 'R'. As explained above, there seems to be consensus now that in former times (which is before I was even born) the German term used by Leica was 'Rückwicklung', whereas in the last 50 years or so the more common term (and as also used by Leica) is 'Rückspulung' or 'Rückspulen' (I am not entirely sure, however, whether William shares that consensus 🙂). Both the more ancient and the more modern German term may be translated into English as 'rewind'.

Cheers,

Andy

[willeica]

6 minutes ago, wizard said:

To be fair, I think there was always consensus that 'R' stands for the rewind function or position. The dispute focussed on the exact German word forming the basis for the abbreviation 'R'. As explained above, there seems to be consensus now that in former times (which is before I was even born) the German term used by Leica was 'Rückwicklung', whereas in the last 50 years or so the more common term (and as also used by Leica) is 'Rückspulung' or 'Rückspulen' (I am not entirely sure, however, whether William shares that consensus 🙂). Both the more ancient and the more modern German term may be translated into English as 'rewind'.

Cheers,

Andy

The article was about an historically significant camera, nothing more, nothing less. The word meaning of ‘R’ in German has become a distraction which does not concern me now.This was all started by my editor. Time for a wrap?

William

[Herr Barnack]

On 4/1/2022 at 1:27 PM, willeica said:

I like the idea of someone buying the camera and donating it to the museum, but that is unlikely to happen.

As for using it, apart from walking around on the street with 5 million worth of camera in your hands ( think of the insurance costs, if you get any) , this one may still have the original uncapped shutter, so you would need to get into the habit of putting the cap on as you wind it.

The concept of using every camera goes out the window when you go to more than 10 cameras in your collection. I have more than 50, but less than 100. I know some people with hundreds of camera.

Collecting and using only go so far together. I cannot really understand people who disapprove of people collecting things to own them and not to use them. Collecting cameras is an entirely different activity to buying cameras to use.

‘Whatever it is’ could be WWIII, but I hope it is not. 

William

Word on the street here in the U.S. is that a Brigadier General at Whiteman AFB, MO who is a Leica connoisseur has put up one of their B2 Stealth bombers for sale to fund the purchase of the Barnack camera for his collection. 

The worry is that he may come up short on cash.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[wizard]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb willeica:

The article was about an historically significant camera, nothing more, nothing less. The word meaning of ‘R’ in German has become a distraction which does not concern me now.This was all started by my editor. Time for a wrap?

No offense whatsoever intended on my part, William. You had asked for assistance by a German native speaker, and that got me started. All is good.

[willeica]

2 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Word on the street here in the U.S. is that a Brigadier General at Whiteman AFB, MO who is a Leica connoisseur has put up one of their B2 Stealth bombers for sale to fund the purchase of the Barnack camera for his collection. 

The worry is that he may come up short on cash.

There is a scent of Musk off this story.

William 

[maxfairclough]

My apologies for misinterpreting the discussion here. I chimed in late. Thanks for the clarity everyone. I look forward to reading the article. 
 

thanks all.

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 4/27/2022 at 7:51 AM, zeitz said:

I have stated before my contempt for museums by calling them mausoleums.  The two largest camera collections in the world, the Smithsonian in Washington DC and George Eastman House in Rochester NY, have almost none of their vast collections on display for anyone's viewing.  Please refer to the last scene of Indiana Jones "The Raiders of the Lost Ark" where there is a vast warehouse, full of boxes with unknown contents.  Even the Charles Messer Leica collection at Miami University in Oxford OH has only about 10% of the objects on display.  Online virtual exhibits are of little value.

https://www.miamioh.edu/cca/art-museum/collections/leica-camera-collection/index.html

 

Hello Zeitz,

What you have written is the situation in a number of museums in a number of different fields all over the Planet. For a number of museums 10% or less of what they are holding is actually on display. And a number of museums in a number of fields do not even know what a lot of what they are not displaying even is. Not unusual.

Also, when donating to museums, as well as libraries, etc., please keep in mind that a significant portion of what is donated & gratefully accepted as a "wonderful donation, etc." may well end up being sold not long after it is received. If retention in the collection is important to you: That retention or/& your ability to come to the museum, library. etc. to see/access what you are donating in the future, should be specifically stipulated in the receipt for what is being donated.

Best Regards,

Michael

[Michael Geschlecht]

On 4/27/2022 at 3:11 PM, zeitz said:

In the case of the Smithsonian the answer is simple once you can answer these questions:  why are the Smithsonian Museums only in Washington, DC; why do museum buildings have to be architectural edifices, built at great expense; why are elaborate interpretive displays required; why do the Smithsonian Museums have to have free admissions?

Every medium to large city in the US should have branches of the Smithsonian.  The material displayed should be suited to the history of the city; so the camera collection would be in Rochester, NY.  Aircraft exhibits could be in St Louis, MO.  Farming equipment could be in Omaha, NB.  etc.  There are many empty and unused commercial spaces in the US that are lots of floor space and have large parking lots.  They would be excellent buildings where the contents are more important than the building.  And finally a small admission should be charged, maybe $5.  People drive $50,000 SUVs to Washington DC, spend over $300 per night in hotels, and eat at $50 a plate restaurants.  But when they want to go in a museum, they whine if they have to pay an entry fee.

Hello Zeitz,

1 of the reasons for not having admission charges at the Smithsonian Museums is that it is the Museum Of The United States. Which makes it everybody's Museum. The people's museum. Paid for with everybody's tax dollars.

1 reason for free admission to Museums, etc. in general is also so that people who do not fit the criteria that you listed above, because of a lack of disposable income, can also go to Museums & benefit from what is there for them to learn from. And sometimes just to enjoy.

Your idea of taking parts of the packed away materials & opening other branches in a large number of other parts of the Country is a good idea. I would add a certain amount of general or/& other material along with those items that are specific to a certain part of the Country.

Best Regards,

Michael

Edited April 30, 2022 by Michael Geschlecht

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[willeica]

5 hours ago, Michael Geschlecht said:

Hello Zeitz,

1 of the reasons for not having admission charges at the Smithsonian Museums is that it is the Museum Of The United States. Which makes it everybody's Museum. The people's museum. Paid for with everybody's tax dollars.

1 reason for free admission to Museums, etc. in general is also so that people who do not fit the criteria that you listed above, because of a lack of disposable income, can also go to Museums & benefit from what is there for them to learn from. And sometimes just to enjoy.

Your idea of taking parts of the packed away materials & opening other branches in a large number of other parts of the Country is a good idea. I would add a certain amount of general or/& other material along with those items that are specific to a certain part of the Country.

Best Regards,

Michael

As Chairman of the Gallery of Photography, Ireland which has ambitions to become the Photo Museum Ireland I have some experience of the cost of maintaining collections and displaying them. The week after next I am going with an architect to view both our premises and that of the National Photographic Archive which are located on opposite sides of the same square in Dublin as we both have a considerable need to expand our accommodation. Just across the water in London, the V&A Museum opened a Photographic Centre in 2018. It contains a collection of photographs and photographic equipment, some of which came from the Royal Photographic Society National Photography Collection in Bradford. Fellow Forum member pgk ( Paul Kay) and I collect brass lenses made by Thomas Grubb and his son Howard in Dublin in the 19th Century and we have between 15 and 20  examples between us. A few years ago, just before Covid, Paul discovered that the V&A had 10 more examples of the same lenses sitting, unseen,  in a warehouse near Swindon. We asked if we could go there to view the items, but we were told that the V&A did not have staff to manage our visit. 

Moving on the Leica, I attended the opening of the Ernst Leitz Museum in Wetzlar last September. It contains only a very small number of historic Leica cameras and lenses. Certainly most of the items in the book 'Museum Leica' published in 2018 by Lars Netopil are not on display. The museum is a much broader type of institution dealing with general photography and photography skills and also contains a large photographic gallery. The glass cases of cameras in the hallway and behind the factory in the HQ building are still there, of course.

The point I am trying to make is that, whatever about 'tax dollars', running such institutions, whether it be by the Smithsonian, V&A, Kodak or Leica, is always expensive and requires a lot of staff. The best that most can do is to rotate curated displays and exhibitions throughout the year. Most will allow some research by experts , but I know that many institutions are struggling with that concept right now. They are also struggling with the process of digitisation of old images. As for the cost, you will see, on the walls of museums and galleries that are privately or charitably funded, the names of donors. Running such institutions is not easy and not cheap.

Michael, I totally support what you suggest, but, as ever with such matters , it is easier said than done. We all need to lobby about this, wherever we may live. 

William 

Edited April 30, 2022 by willeica