Oscar Barnack's very own Leica 0-Series no.105 from the Leitz Museum in Wetzlar is being auctioned

[Pyrogallol]

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My specialist dealer, now retired, told of relatives bringing in cameras to sell from a deceased relative’s possessions, they would bring in the modern ones, worth little. He knew the deceased photographer and knew he had a Leica or two that had been bought from his shop. The relatives had put those “old” cameras out for the bin men. That had happened on more than one occasion.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Pyrogallol

[willeica]

21 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

We shouldn’t be too offhand about people who might be taken in by a faked Russian “Leica”. It’s only because we are obsessed by the minutiae of the Leica cameras that we recognise the fakes. There are other collectibles, stamps, coins, pottery, paintings etc that we might easily be caught buying a fake because they are a subject we are not well versed in. You might buy a “Penny Black” stamp thinking it is rare and would like one, without realising that millions were printed and condition is everything, along with dates, postmarks, colour shades, margins, plate numbers, retouchings etc. Find me a mint unused sheet and I will worry about it being a fake printed yesterday.

I agree . There are people who actually like collecting fakes. As regards old cameras from the 1920s or 30s I would always choose one that looks used as opposed to a mint example that might have been repainted. In my experience most 80, 90 or 100 year old cameras have had some work done to them and very few are completely original.
 

Later on I will post my article on fake and copy Leicas on this thread, as I feel it needs to be read along with what has being said here.
 

I also spent a couple of hours just after the auction on Saturday with Ottmar Michaely who had stripped down No 105 and got it to work again. He confirmed the originality of the parts and what he had done to make the camera function again. We did not discuss the engravings as they have been on the camera for a long time and were on it when he received it. What he was concerned with was the authenticity of the parts and their ability to function. He confirmed that most 0 Series cameras had the original folding finder replaced with the tubular Galilean model seen on No105. He also confirmed that the change in the wind knob related to the use of FILCA cassettes as the original cassettes for the 0 Series were impossible to find, even many years ago. The only change which he made was to the focus mount which was not working. After this work, No 105, was able to produce perfect images.

Our conversation then moved onto what he thought was the most interesting item in the auction and that was the set of blueprints for the 0 and I series cameras, which I had the privilege to go through last Friday. These included the lens mount for the 0 Series which actually came from a 64mm Summar. The blueprints covered about 10 years and confirmed my long held belief that Barnack constantly changed his designs and Ottmar confirmed that cameras that came back to the factory were usually ‘upgraded’. The designs never remained static. To mention a term used by Local Hero above, Barnack was a man of insatiable curiosity and inventiveness and he never ceased trying to improve his original design. I can confirm this from my own research and my own large collection of Leicas from the 1920s and 1930s. I have also discussed this on many occasions with Jim Lager, who does not subscribe to the  belief that all examples of any early Leica model will be exactly the same. This makes spotting fakes even more difficult , but that is where experts like Ottmar come in. An example of this was the first IIId which was mentioned earlier. When I sent the guy in the US to Lars he got Ottmar to strip down the camera and he confirmed its authenticity. Neither Lars nor Jim had been aware that this camera even existed, but Ottmar was able to recognise the period work and parts in the camera. 
 

I’m not sure what Byron would have made of all of this, but one of the points I made in my  fake/copy Leica article was that when in doubt about any camera one should ‘ ask an expert’ and, by this, I mean a real expert. Unfortunately, the number of real experts is declining. Even Ottmar, who is much younger than I am is talking about retiring, but he is passing on his skills to some much younger guys who are about the age of my grandson.

Later on I will post my fake/copy article here and I will do a separate thread about the blueprints. My curiosity was on fire while I was in Wetzlar and I will be going back again. I recommend a trip to Wetzlar to anyone who is curious about Leica cameras. 

William 
 

 

 

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[Pyrogallol]

Are there any pictures of the cassette used in the “O” series cameras? How does it differ from the FILCA “A” cassettes?

 

[willeica]

6 hours ago, Pyrogallol said:

Are there any pictures of the cassette used in the “O” series cameras? How does it differ from the FILCA “A” cassettes?

 

I'll have a look around my literature , but I have never actually seen a picture of one. Ottmar Michaely implied that, even by the late 1920s, these were not available. The 0 Series was never actually sold, it was a group of test cameras which were distribute precisely for the purpose of testing some of the concepts which eventually became part of the first production Leica cameras in 1925. After use they were sent back to Wetzlar, where most of them were modified by Barnack's Department. As I mentioned above, Barnack believed in working and reworking his design concepts and he never stopped doing this until the day that he died. The Richter/Fricke book is full of examples of Barnack's test and retest methods. Ottmar Michael also confirmed this from all of the early Leicas he has stripped down over many years. The design evolution was constant in those years. The FILCA would have appeared in 1925  and was replaced by the B which became the most common type. Have a look at the thread which I started here about 'FILCA A, B, C where's D' to see more about the evolution of the Leitz cassettes.

William 

[earleygallery]

On 6/12/2022 at 11:04 AM, Pyrogallol said:

We shouldn’t be too offhand about people who might be taken in by a faked Russian “Leica”. It’s only because we are obsessed by the minutiae of the Leica cameras that we recognise the fakes. There are other collectibles, stamps, coins, pottery, paintings etc that we might easily be caught buying a fake because they are a subject we are not well versed in. You might buy a “Penny Black” stamp thinking it is rare and would like one, without realising that millions were printed and condition is everything, along with dates, postmarks, colour shades, margins, plate numbers, retouchings etc. Find me a mint unused sheet and I will worry about it being a fake printed yesterday.

I bought my Godson a Penny Black as a christening present, 23 years ago now. He had it valued recently and it's gone up in price significantly! As you say, it's all about minute details a layman wouldn't know anything about.

I felt very sorry for the guy I mentioned, he thought he'd struck gold but made a huge mistake. He took the punt but it didn't pay off - plenty of us have done that during our lives!

[willeica]

I said that I would post my article on Leica Fakes and Copies here as there has been some discussion here on the topic. The two most important takeaways are not to confuse or conflate the 'fake' and 'copy' concepts and to seek the advice of an expert if you are in any doubt about any camera. 

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I will do a separate thread about the blueprints which were sold last Saturday and I will try to be coherent, given that I am not a design engineer. For an engineer like Ottmar Michaely these were even more exciting than 105 itself. He said that these were not known in Leica HQ until a client sent them in for auction. The blue prints were based on early drawings done by Barnack and his signature is visible. This one was the item which most excited Ottmar as it shows the Anastigmat in a 64mm Summar mount. It is dated 22nd September 1923, which would have been after No 105 was made. I have to admit that going through these was a bit overwhelming as here was the genesis of our hobby set out on documents produced about a century ago. These documents are of immense importance and one can only hope that professional copies were made before the lot was sold. Mine was a grab shot done with my iPhone.

 

William 

[Al Brown]

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On 6/13/2022 at 11:13 PM, willeica said:

I said that I would post my article on Leica Fakes and Copies here as there has been some discussion here on the topic. The two most important takeaways are not to confuse or conflate the 'fake' and 'copy' concepts and to seek the advice of an expert if you are in any doubt about any camera. 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

I will do a separate thread about the blueprints which were sold last Saturday and I will try to be coherent, given that I am not a design engineer. For an engineer like Ottmar Michaely these were even more exciting than 105 itself. He said that these were not known in Leica HQ until a client sent them in for auction. The blue prints were based on early drawings done by Barnack and his signature is visible. This one was the item which most excited Ottmar as it shows the Anastigmat in a 64mm Summar mount. It is dated 22nd September 1923, which would have been after No 105 was made. I have to admit that going through these was a bit overwhelming as here was the genesis of our hobby set out on documents produced about a century ago. These documents are of immense importance and one can only hope that professional copies were made before the lot was sold. Mine was a grab shot done with my iPhone.

 

William 

I remember (and must still have) an original Leica brochure on fakes.

[willeica]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

I remember (and must still have) an original Leica brochure on fakes.

Would love this see that, Al. The main thing I did not find was any evidence of Leitz/ Leica pursuing anyone for doing fakes or even copies which were also in breach of copyright. There were external factors, of course, such as the Soviets cancelling external copyrights and the Allies cancelling Axis copyrights.

Speaking of ‘fakes’ I recently took part in a collectors’ Zoom discussion on Reid Leica copies where it was revealed that the Reid Collector, the late John Vincent, had tapes which recorded interviews with former Reid & Sigrist employees about the famous ‘British Intelligence’ visit to Wetzlar just after WWII. It was from the information obtained on this visit that the Reid camera was created. I often wondered how that had happened as official sources generally keep information to themselves. The answer is on the tapes as it seems that the ‘British Intelligence’ group included several Reid and Sigrist employees in fake military uniforms. 
 

Sauce for the goose etc.

William 

[Al Brown]

9 minutes ago, willeica said:

Would love this see that, Al. The main thing I did not find was any evidence of Leitz/ Leica pursuing anyone for doing fakes or even copies which were also in breach of copyright. There were external factors, of course, such as the Soviets cancelling external copyrights and the Allies cancelling Axis copyrights.

Speaking of ‘fakes’ I recently took part in a collectors’ Zoom discussion on Reid Leica copies where it was revealed that the Reid Collector, the late John Vincent, had tapes which recorded interviews with former Reid & Sigrist employees about the famous ‘British Intelligence’ visit to Wetzlar just after WWII. It was from the information obtained on this visit that the Reid camera was created. I often wondered how that had happened as official sources generally keep information to themselves. The answer is on the tapes as it seems that the ‘British Intelligence’ group included several Reid and Sigrist employees in fake military uniforms. 
 

Sauce for the goose etc.

William 

It was a LFI publication, I think back in the late nineties.

 

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[PG Black nickel]

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