M11 in cold weather?

[North]

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Are there any experience of long (preferable several days) continuous exposure to very low temperatures,  -30/40°C and below, for the M11? In the early 80´s me and my friends only had marginal problems with a range of different manual and semi manual cameras (Olympus, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Konica etc) in such situations. I do not doubt a film Leica would have faired equally good. As long as you did not have motor drive and tried to avoid film change at those temperatures you were mostly fine.

My body do not allow me such trips nowadays, but my M9 have had no problems with -20°C for a couple of hours, only some higher battery drainage. 

I got a concerned that the M11 has "operating conditions +0 to +40°C" in the spec sheet. Not very impressive, but I hope it is a very conservative temperature range. I do not doubt the mechanics and lenses, that would probably be fine. I guess the "touch function" of the screen is the weakest point, that would probably start to degrade very soon below 0°C. But are there any other more important weak points?

Anyone with experience?

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2022 by North

[JimKnopf]

I used the M11 for a week in -10 degrees, snow and freezing rain.
The camera works very reliably.
It was lying in the snow (the USB port was also full of snow) and survived.
Of course, you shouldn't expose them to rain all the time.
The SL2 had a 1cm ice shield all around - I wouldn't want to do that with the M.

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[knutm]

I can contribute to the answer with: the (modern) batteries do not "like" low temperatures.

[simonwesterlund]

6 hours ago, JimKnopf said:

I used the M11 for a week in -10 degrees, snow and freezing rain.
The camera works very reliably.
It was lying in the snow (the USB port was also full of snow) and survived.
Of course, you shouldn't expose them to rain all the time.
The SL2 had a 1cm ice shield all around - I wouldn't want to do that with the M.

same here, no issues shooting in -15 degrees Celsius apart from the battery draining almost twice as fast.

the only real problem is it's very easy to have your mittens cover the focus window, but that's not really a M11 issue

[AandW]

I find digital M cameras do well for me in the cold.  I often use down to -20C without problem.   I have been out with the M11 a few times at -15C to -20C for 2 or 3 hours.  The larger battery and its easier switching are real positives the M11 has over the previous digital Ms.  I always use a small camera bag in the cold even if using a single lens.  It helps keep snow off the camera from branches and such..  I place the camera in bag for a while upon returning to a warm building to prevent condensation.  This is something I have done for years and I do wonder if it is required with modern cameras.

I once read the M is quite good in cold due to less moving parts - Just the shutter, not a mirror, ibis, or auto focus.   I do wonder about the use of the electronic shutter.  On one hand it would mean no moving parts.  On the other hand when the cold camera goes to sleep or is turned off perhaps the closing of the shutter that has not been exercised for a few hours could be a problem.   This is speculation but I do use the mechanical shutter in the cold so I know it is being exercised.  I do wish that Leica would give meaningful guidance for colder weather use instead of simply saying that they do not recommend operating below 0 C.

[North]

11 hours ago, AandW said:

I do wish that Leica would give meaningful guidance for colder weather use instead of simply saying that they do not recommend operating below 0 C.

I could not agree more!

They certainly work! I have not had my M9 out in really low temperature,  like below -30/40C, but around -20C it seem to work just fine for several hours. Where I live the temperature go below 0C about half the year so a 0C recommendation is just laughable.

 

[SrMi]

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On 3/30/2022 at 12:20 AM, North said:

Are there any experience of long (preferable several days) continuous exposure to very low temperatures,  -30/40°C and below, for the M11? In the early 80´s me and my friends only had marginal problems with a range of different manual and semi manual cameras (Olympus, Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Konica etc) in such situations. I do not doubt a film Leica would have faired equally good. As long as you did not have motor drive and tried to avoid film change at those temperatures you were mostly fine.

My body do not allow me such trips nowadays, but my M9 have had no problems with -20°C for a couple of hours, only some higher battery drainage. 

I got a concerned that the M11 has "operating conditions +0 to +40°C" in the spec sheet. Not very impressive, but I hope it is a very conservative temperature range. I do not doubt the mechanics and lenses, that would probably be fine. I guess the "touch function" of the screen is the weakest point, that would probably start to degrade very soon below 0°C. But are there any other more important weak points?

Anyone with experience?

 

 

 

Operating temperatures for other cameras:

Leica S3: 0 to +45°C

Nikon D5: 0 to +40°C

Sony A1: 0 to +40°C

I would not worry.

[North]

20 hours ago, SrMi said:

Operating temperatures for other cameras:

Leica S3: 0 to +45°C

Nikon D5: 0 to +40°C

Sony A1: 0 to +40°C

I would not worry.

Pity they do it like this instead of actually providing useful cold weather tips.

It like light coloured cotton clothes with washing recommendation "wash separately at 30°C". 

[knutm]

the original question was „long (preferable several days) continuous exposure to very low temperatures,  -30/40°C and below“, this sounds like really extremely harsh conditions.

And operating any electronic device under such conditions requires special measures - heating the battery/device, special chips, soldering?, do not know about the sensor itself and the LCD screen. Even my car manual mentions -20°C as a lower limit (premium manufacturer). And ordering mil-spec devices is a completely different business.

[North]

"the original question was „long (preferable several days) continuous exposure to very low temperatures,  -30/40°C and below“, this sounds like really extremely harsh conditions.

And operating any electronic device under such conditions requires special measures - heating the battery/device, special chips, soldering?, do not know about the sensor itself and the LCD screen. Even my car manual mentions -20°C as a lower limit (premium manufacturer). And ordering mil-spec devices is a completely different business."

Yes, that was my question. 

Much since I had read the recommended operational temperatures, and also 35 years ago made several week long trips in such cold temperatures, and without experiencing much problems with different camera brands. Even battery dependent exposure meters mostly worked well for a whole week. 

Where I live this is not uncommon temperatures in winter, at least in nearby large valleys. So I consider it cold, but far from "extremely harsh" 

I guess some Leica users have experienced prolonged exposure to these low temperatures. Nowdays, I only do day trips in -20/25°C temperatures, which my M9 handle just fine. 

Battery drainage is an obvious limiting factor, but are the others? Like displays, electronic shutters, etc?  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jaapv]

I only experienced this long ago using an M6 - which might break the film or cause static discharge when advancing.
For digital cameras as such normally no problem apart from LCDs fading temporarily or condensation/freezing up. The main problem is the battery, as you mention (also for electric cars).

[North]

"For digital cameras as such normally no problem apart from LCDs fading temporarily or condensation/freezing up. The main problem is the battery, as you mention (also for electric cars)."

Thanks, very good to hear!

"I only experienced this long ago using an M6 - which might break the film or cause static discharge when advancing."

Yes,  that  was my experience also. You had to advance the film very slowly, not to break it -40C. After tried it once I also came to the conclusion to keep it at 36 pictures per trip. You neither want to fiddle with film loading at these temperature, neither do you take lots of images. Everything needs to be considered carefully, and just to take one image was usually a small project that was planned before starting.