Leica M6, M7 or MP and costs of each

[ejg1890]

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I have contemplated the addition of a film camera to my collection (which is not large). I have looked at the Leica M6, M7 and MP. However, the price of these used items appear to be much higher than what I hear people have quoted prices or acquired these cameras in the last 18 months or so. I have the prices of these used cameras considerable increased during these 18 months? 

I am finding a used Leica MP runs $4600-$4900 USD (black is $5100),  while an M7 is a minimum of $4000 usd but the M6 is the most difficult to gauge running from eBay bids of $2500 up to $4100 (TTL). Do these prices appear to be the going prices in the US at the moment? If not what are locations or dealers to contact for these cameras?

Thanks

[Kreeshp]

I agree that the prices for M6's have increased dramatically in the last two years.  The gap between a used M6 and a new M-A or a new MP has narrowed so much that it seems like better value to buy a brand new camera with all its benefits (e.g., being the first owner, having a warranty, having all the mechanicals as fresh as possible).

Getting a new MP is a bit more of a challenge than finding used M6's or M7's as apparently Leica makes only two batches per year and the wait list is long so even if it makes sense to buy new, be prepared to wait behind all the other people that came to that conclusion months ago and have their orders in ahead of you.  Note also a price increase of new M-A's and MP's as of 01 April 2022.     https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2022/03/leica-price-increase-coming-april-1-2022/

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[johnwolf]

There's so much variation, and it depends on whether or not you buy from a dealer. I think you're high on M7 prices, about right on MPs, and a little low on M6s. At least from dealers..

igorcamera.com has M6s and M7s at what I'm seeing as normal prices. 

Sure you need a meter?

John

Edited March 24, 2022 by johnwolf

[JoshuaRothman]

I was amazed by how prices have risen; I ended up buying an M2 instead of an M6. 

[ejg1890]

15 minutes ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I was amazed by how prices have risen; I ended up buying an M2 instead of an M6. 

I have heard others mentioning they preferred an M2 over the M6. I shot primarily 35mm with some 28mm and an occasional 50mm. I am trying to shot 50mm more frequently so the M2 would be a fit. Other than price what made you go toward the M2 over the M6?

Thanks

[a.noctilux]

As long time user of M2, I can say that it's the less cluttered finder,

only one framelines showed, if composing without other lines in VF is important.

External 28mm VF is for me better view/framing than the one (less accurate) in the M6/MP.

And the film loading with old style M2 is something to learn and after that, more secure than M4/M6 quick loading.

My wife doesn't like the red LED in my M6/MP, as example of difference between user.

Edited March 24, 2022 by a.noctilux

[bags27]

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2 hours ago, ejg1890 said:

I have contemplated the addition of a film camera to my collection (which is not large). I have looked at the Leica M6, M7 and MP. However, the price of these used items appear to be much higher than what I hear people have quoted prices or acquired these cameras in the last 18 months or so. I have the prices of these used cameras considerable increased during these 18 months? 

I am finding a used Leica MP runs $4600-$4900 USD (black is $5100),  while an M7 is a minimum of $4000 usd but the M6 is the most difficult to gauge running from eBay bids of $2500 up to $4100 (TTL). Do these prices appear to be the going prices in the US at the moment? If not what are locations or dealers to contact for these cameras?

Thanks

Yes, prices of all the most desirable film cameras (including Voigtlander Bessas which are also great M mount cameras and the top medium format ones) have skyrocketed, as have all luxury goods.

why those models especially? It is the build-in light meter? To me, that's not a "real" Leica. 🙂. You can get an earlier one, M3, 4-P, etc for half or less than half the price, and use your cell phone app light meter. 

Whatever you buy, make sure you understand that it will, sooner or later, need a CLA, and that could take anywhere from 4-6 months with the best repair people. So, better to buy two. 🙂

Edited March 24, 2022 by bags27

[250swb]

There is an ongoing price increase in Leica cameras, and it's great for people who own them and drive the price, not so good for people wanting to get into the market. If this is a first film camera I wouldn't go there,  buy a Nikon and have film fun without the pressure of the cost and decide about a Leica later. But if you want advice about the best usable and affordable M film body my choice would be M2 or M4-P. The current MP is the pearl in the range if you can afford it.

[ejg1890]

8 minutes ago, 250swb said:

There is an ongoing price increase in Leica cameras, and it's great for people who own them and drive the price, not so good for people wanting to get into the market. If this is a first film camera I wouldn't go there,  buy a Nikon and have film fun without the pressure of the cost and decide about a Leica later. But if you want advice about the best usable and affordable M film body my choice would be M2 or M4-P. The current MP is the pearl in the range if you can afford it.

I started out years ago with a Canon AE-1. Did drop off photography with marriage and kids, but picked it up again in 2010 with a Nikon D90. Several changes since then. eventually got to manual focus lenses on a Nikon but eventually switched over to Leica digital. However, I do miss the look of film.

[JoshuaRothman]

1 hour ago, ejg1890 said:

I have heard others mentioning they preferred an M2 over the M6. I shot primarily 35mm with some 28mm and an occasional 50mm. I am trying to shot 50mm more frequently so the M2 would be a fit. Other than price what made you go toward the M2 over the M6?

Thanks

I figured that I’d like the cleaner finder, without the LEDs. And I thought it would be a fun challenge to learn to work without a meter. Both things have been true. So far I’m very happy. And I saved enough money by going with an M2 that I was able to buy both 35mm and 50mm lenses.

I may eventually “upgrade” to an MP or M-A, but I’m glad to have taken this more affordable route for now. And now I’m actually not sure that I see a good reason to change cameras in the future—it seems like I have everything I need in the M2.

Edited March 24, 2022 by JoshuaRothman

[ejg1890]

10 minutes ago, JoshuaRothman said:

I figured that I’d like the cleaner finder, without the LEDs. And I thought it would be a fun challenge to learn to work without a meter. Both things have been true. 

Curious what you do or how you learned to work without a meter. I use the meter regularly to set expose even though I am frequently under or over exposure depending on the circumstances.

[JoshuaRothman]

6 minutes ago, ejg1890 said:

Curious what you do or how you learned to work without a meter. I use the meter regularly to set expose even though I am frequently under or over exposure depending on the circumstances.

I bought a tiny shoe-mounted meter from a company called KEKS. I basically figure the exposure without it, using Sunny 16 or just my intuition, and then check with the meter when I want to, metering either the whole scene or an appropriate mid-toned surface, or my hand, for skin tone. So far it’s working well! I think I’m evolving towards only needing to consult a meter at the beginning of the day. I’ve also made my life easier by only using 400 ISO film for now.

I do sometimes miss having a meter, but I also enjoy the distraction-free finder. So I’m going to persevere until I get good at it. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by JoshuaRothman

[JoshuaRothman]

Really, my only wish about my M2 is that it were black. I’m persevering in getting used to a silver camera, too!

[spydrxx]

Years ago I thought a metered M6 would be a nice upgrade from my old M4, so I got one. Within a year I sold it, though. I really hated it; it seemed bigger and more cluttered than my M4, the metering IMHO was iffy compared to what I was used to. I eventually sold the M4 after 43 years use during a financial meltdown, and about 2-3 years later picked up an M2 which I recovered and have been happy as a clam. I only on occasion need a meter, having well mastered estimating exposure over a period of years. Prices on Leica gear have climbed to outrageous levels, even on old M2 and M3 models. I was lucky in the last two years to get a couple of Barnacks cheap and am enjoying them as well. Good luck in your search.

Steve

[a.noctilux]

2 hours ago, ejg1890 said:

Curious what you do or how you learned to work without a meter. I use the meter regularly to set expose even though I am frequently under or over exposure depending on the circumstances.

Liberating learning to be meter-free for the rest of our life, even don't need the Expo Mat after learning, just "knowing", that's all.

Try this for a while with practices, of course, then freedom will be there.

 

Exposure Mat that I discovered many years ago, I also distributed many 😉 when I was less lazy ...

https://expomat.tripod.com/

 

Edited March 24, 2022 by a.noctilux

[earleygallery]

Film M's do seem to have risen dramatically in value and must be selling otherwise prices would drop.

The M2 is probably one of the better 'bang for buck' used buys, but get one from a dealer who provides a warranty so that you don't have to pay for repairs if you find any immediate issues!

Another option is to consider a Barnack Leica (yes you will need LTM lens/es but you can use them on your digital M as well).

[ktmrider2]

Don't know why everyone seems to be pushing the M2 as a "budget" film camera.  A quick check of prices at Tamarkin shows M2's between $1650-$2500.  I have been using Leica film cameras since 1974 starting with the CL and have owned all of them up to the M7.  My favorites are the M2 (viewfinder) and M4 (viewfinder almost as good but better film loading/rewind).  And if you need a meter, the M5 is disparaged by people who have never used them.  And what is an MA but an M2 with modern film loading and six frame lines in the viewfinder costing $$$$$ more but it is newer.

Leica got something right with the M2 better than any other film M.  The .72 finder allows for the use of 35mm lenses and the internals are identical to the legendary M3 (almost).  I am using a mint black M4 and one film M now fits my needs.  Honestly I don't shoot enough to justify all the Leica cameras I had last fall so I sold three of them and several lenses.  If I did not have the M4 I would have an M2 and would not look back.  I guess my ideal Leica would be a black paint M2 with modern film loading but I am willing to save thousands of dollars and take a pass on the black paint and am too lazy to look for a M2 with the modern film loading mechanism.  Yes, they were made but are pretty rare.

If you want to really learn about the M2, go over to rangefinder forum and check out Tom Abrahamsson's discussions under "Coffee with Mentors".  I have a good friend who shoots for NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC and his photography kit for after the nuclear war is two M2's with 35 and 90 lenses and 500 rolls of TriX.

On prices, yes film Leica prices have gone nuts.  I purchased a mint black chrome 50th anniversary M4 from ClassicConnection almost three years ago for $3000.  Sam Shoshan, the owner, offered to buy it back last week for $3000.  And yes buy whichever model you decide on from a dealer like Tamarkin or Classic Connection who will allow you to return the camera for a money back guarantee.  

Honestly it is hard to go wrong with any Leica camera.  If you shop around, you should be able to sell it for what you paid for it or perhaps a bit more.  Have fun and good hunting.

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by ktmrider2

[romualdo]

Things have also escalated here in Australia.

I bought a black chrome M6 (classic) in 2015 for $1000 (Aus) then resold it a year later for $1100 Aus (money was used to fund a black paint MP costing $2800 Aus).

People are currently asking up to $4000 Aus for an M6 (ie Gumtree) - whether they are actually selling for that price is another question

[Studienkamera]

48 minutes ago, romualdo said:

Things have also escalated here in Australia.

I bought a black chrome M6 (classic) in 2015 for $1000 (Aus) then resold it a year later for $1100 Aus (money was used to fund a black paint MP costing $2800 Aus).

People are currently asking up to $4000 Aus for an M6 (ie Gumtree) - whether they are actually selling for that price is another question

A silver M6 from a seller in Williamstown was advertised one or two weeks ago for AUD 4900 on gumtree and sold within a day.

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[romualdo]

36 minutes ago, Studienkamera said:

A silver M6 from a seller in Williamstown was advertised one or two weeks ago for AUD 4900 on gumtree and sold within a day.

another reason I sold the M6 was the frequent "viewfinder flare", especially indoors - that completely resolved with the MP.  How much more does it cost to upgrade an M6 viewfinder to to MP/M-A type - that's an added cost unless you want to adapt to keeping your eye in the most correct spot to minimise this flare.