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Questions about Leica M lens performance on M11 (new information on Reid Reviews site, 3/22)


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9 hours ago, Overgaard said:

I wish that was all there was to it. But good research, well done on finding that!

The Noctilux f/0.95 produce purple fringing generally, when you work against strong light sources, so that isn't a sensor problem (alonew). M9, M11, SL2, same effect to larger or smaller degree. So an optical challenge of some sort is involved. 

That the 28/1.4 seem to produce purple fringing on M11 and less on other sensors, that gives hope that it is a sensor issue and that it might be fixed with firmware. We'll be wiser on this I guess, as new firmware arrives. 

The purple fringing and CA discussion can be a little too much. I was testing 21/1.4, 28/1.4, Nocti, 50 APO etc yesterday trying to produce purple fringing, and you have to work to get that stuff to appear. Photographing trees against the light is a given as it has all the hard contrast and overflow you can dream of, and parts in focus and all other parts in different degrees of out of focus. But most other subjects, there has to be specific super high contrast (strongly overexposed) areas to get that condition where an edge or more produce purple fringing.  

Close but no cigar.

I can’t use science, or even technical detail, but the 50 Noctilux f/0.95 reasonably consistently gives purple fringing where there is a high contrast transition - reflection off chrom or back light objects with the 24MP M cameras - M(240) & M10, and even the M9 - but has minimal purple fringing with the 24MP SL(601).

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Here is an update on the conversation regarding Summilux 28mm purple "issues" on M11 (my own camera). Nothing that Lightroom can correct, have to use the old Photoshop techniques, e.g. the blur layer on top with desaturation filter / selective paint in on the purple. Shot at f/2, developed in Lightroom. Firmware 1.3.0.0. Shot at ISO 3200, no exposure / highlight / shadow changes - all sliders at 0 (Lightroom default).

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20 hours ago, mzbe said:

Here is an update on the conversation regarding Summilux 28mm purple "issues" on M11 (my own camera). Nothing that Lightroom can correct, have to use the old Photoshop techniques, e.g. the blur layer on top with desaturation filter / selective paint in on the purple. Shot at f/2, developed in Lightroom. Firmware 1.3.0.0. Shot at ISO 3200, no exposure / highlight / shadow changes - all sliders at 0 (Lightroom default).

 

The 28 lux is by far my most used lens. Any consensus if this issue with the M11 is significant enough that we 28 lux users should not get an M11?

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10 minutes ago, gotium said:

The 28 lux is by far my most used lens. Any consensus if this issue with the M11 is significant enough that we 28 lux users should not get an M11?

The majority of my pictures thus far with the 28mm Summilux on the M11 do not have this issue - strong light sources at night (or sunsets) are likely the worst case scenario, producing a larger area of overload of the pixels several stops beyond maximum sensitivity. I would draw the line - if you shoot for pleasure, you will likely be able to deal with it (use Photoshop, convert to B&W, discard the picture). If you depend on shooting a portrait of a rock star and you have 5 minutes, and the opportunity will never come back (... or: wedding ceremony, some key scenes ...), I don't think we have enough data/experience yet to state with confidence that M11 with Summilux 28mm would be recommended for those once in a lifetime situations?

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Am 4.4.2022 um 23:37 schrieb gotium:

The 28 lux is by far my most used lens. Any consensus if this issue with the M11 is significant enough that we 28 lux users should not get an M11?

In the cases I saw the effect (for example tree against sky wide open) I could get rid of/correct  the purple fringing in LR classic.

 

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On the M11 the Summilux 28mm is still an extraordinarily capable lens ...

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2 hours ago, mzbe said:

On the M11 the Summilux 28mm is still an extraordinarily capable lens ...

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Do you see any difference in purple fringing before and after the latest firmware update?

Asking because I'm seriously considering getting one for my M11. Currently have the 28/2 ASPH V2 and only considering the 'lux so as to match the aperture of my 50 and 35

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20 minutes ago, Kwesi said:

Do you see any difference in purple fringing before and after the latest firmware update?

Asking because I'm seriously considering getting one for my M11. Currently have the 28/2 ASPH V2 and only considering the 'lux so as to match the aperture of my 50 and 35

Never used pre-1.3 firmware, just got the M11. Some issues are still there for sure but hard to objectively assess impact (what bad things happen, how often, are there workarounds, …). I’m starting to use other lenses as well so at least over time will be able to articulate relative performance.

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On 4/5/2022 at 12:37 AM, gotium said:

The 28 lux is by far my most used lens. Any consensus if this issue with the M11 is significant enough that we 28 lux users should not get an M11?

I also use the 28 lux a lot.  Purple fringing is certainly more pronounced on the M11 than on the M10 and as others have pointed out it's corrected in LR as we do with the M10.  I also find the 35 lux asph occasionally purple fringing on the M11 where I hardly saw it on the M10.  Latest FW 1.3.0.0 made no difference.

However, I find the improved IQ and metering of the M11 greatly outweigh the stronger purple fringing.  In addition, shooting a lux wide open in daylight on the M10 requires an ND filter, which is a nuisance and often alters the image colors far more than any increase in purple fringing on the M11.  I recently shot a 5-day trip with the M11 and 28 lux.  No ND filters, no battery charger(*) and no extra batteries - just a body and lens.  How liberating!  Of the 35 "keepers" half were shot wide open and only 2 showed any purple fringing.  So to answer your question, the M11 wins hands down.

(*charged in-camera with my iPhone charger or USB-C port in the car)

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A long thread and I only read the first and last pages. That said, I am a longtime Reid Reviews subscriber. I don’t want to reveal anything from his pages but I was shocked when I read the first post in this thread as it doesn’t seem at all in line with what he wrote. So I went back and re read Sean’s post and I’d say the only thing worse than revealing his hard work is misrepresenting his posts. It’s not a lot of money, pay for a membership and read for yourself. There are a lot of subtleties that we shouldn’t be talking about.

Not going to say any more, except either read the RR post or ignore this entire thread. All I know is I was looking at images I took with my Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 35mm f/2.0 Aspherical today and was floored at the quality. Sharp, zero chromatic aberration, excellent results. If you want to save money, think about Voigtlander, wide lenses designed for film cameras are going to have issues with digital rangefinders. 28 can be a bear. Better stick with the modern lenses. Or just get a Q2 and be happy. 

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vor 7 Stunden schrieb intermediatic:

A long thread and I only read the first and last pages. That said, I am a longtime Reid Reviews subscriber. I don’t want to reveal anything from his pages but I was shocked when I read the first post in this thread as it doesn’t seem at all in line with what he wrote. So I went back and re read Sean’s post and I’d say the only thing worse than revealing his hard work is misrepresenting his posts. It’s not a lot of money, pay for a membership and read for yourself. There are a lot of subtleties that we shouldn’t be talking about.

Not going to say any more, except either read the RR post or ignore this entire thread. All I know is I was looking at images I took with my Voigtlander APO-LANTHAR 35mm f/2.0 Aspherical today and was floored at the quality. Sharp, zero chromatic aberration, excellent results. If you want to save money, think about Voigtlander, wide lenses designed for film cameras are going to have issues with digital rangefinders. 28 can be a bear. Better stick with the modern lenses. Or just get a Q2 and be happy. 

I believe this thread has become more than discussing findings from Sean Reid. (I am also long time subscriber).

It is about discussing M11 corner performance vs for example M10(r). It has not been just Sean Reid who has something to say here, it is also about exchanging the experience from forum members. Be careful, it is not just wide angels which were designed for film. It is also about some modern wide angels. For my part I can say that I can see very slightly better outer corner performance with the M10r with the lenses I use in the wide angle range  (21 SEM, 28 Summilux, 35FLE). If this has a practical relevance for real world photography or just for pixel peeping I am not sure yet.

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  • 8 months later...
On 3/23/2022 at 6:35 AM, mzbe said:

of course: 

direct quote from Leica support, if you decide to believe the poster -

Quote-----

Many thanks for your feedback.

The chromatic aberrations are currently a normal behavior of the M11.

Future firmware updates will bring i.provements here, please be patient.

Unquote------

Please note that this is not the only source of purple fringing examples. It is the only source of Leica acknowledging the issue to the point where they even promise to "paint it over" in future firmware.

Update: Firmware 1.6 shows identical amount of purple fringing with M11. If there is going to be a future improvement via firmware, this is not yet the version where that was included.

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