What M and lens combo (not the usual question)?

[Marc B-C]

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Not sure where to post this as this is an M body in general question.

Many years ago I had an M6 and f2.0 35mm (cannot remember exactly what) with a 0.85 ovf. I sadly had to give that up due to deteriorating  eyesight and focusing issues. I have a Q2 now and am very happy with it, but keep finding myself drawn to another M, albeit digital and not the M11 due to price - this will not be my main camera.

I would prefer a 28/35 or even 50mm lens. 

Perhaps a daft question but what digital M and lens combo would be  easiest to focus?

Does aperture and focal length make a difference? Is the M10 better than an M9 etc? Not too worried about spec and will probably go 2nd hand, if indeed my question can be answered. I am aware of zone focussing, but for the time being let’s assume I want to manual focus for each specific photograph.

[jaapv]

From M240 onwards. Use the Zeiss Biogon-C 35. A fine lens, with a well-designed smooth focus throw, not too expensive and you avoid the more critical apertures. Compared to the Summarit 35 I think that it is clearly the better lens, especially mechanically, but also optically - more contrasty and I suspect higher resolving.

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[archive_all]

3 hours ago, Marc B-C said:

Not sure where to post this as this is an M body in general question.

Many years ago I had an M6 and f2.0 35mm (cannot remember exactly what) with a 0.85 ovf. I sadly had to give that up due to deteriorating  eyesight and focusing issues. I have a Q2 now and am very happy with it, but keep finding myself drawn to another M, albeit digital and not the M11 due to price - this will not be my main camera.

I would prefer a 28/35 or even 50mm lens. 

Perhaps a daft question but what digital M and lens combo would be  easiest to focus?

Does aperture and focal length make a difference? Is the M10 better than an M9 etc? Not too worried about spec and will probably go 2nd hand, if indeed my question can be answered. I am aware of zone focussing, but for the time being let’s assume I want to manual focus for each specific photograph.

Are you planning to use the rangefinder only?

Shorter FL and smaller apertures will give a bit wiggle room for an in focus plane. I would tend to recommend a 35mm as a do all lens but a 28mm would work well if you like that FL. 50mm may be a bit too narrow of DOF if you're worried about focus errors, assuming you plan to shoot wide open or close to wide open.

I'm not too familiar with the M9 but have used/owned a 240, 240-P and 262. I find the M10 easier to focus because of the slight change in magnification, same with .72 film M's. I found them easier to focus than the 240 series. Others may feel differently but that's my experience.

[jaapv]

Actually the rangefinder/viewfinder was redesigned on the M240 and refined on the M10. Both cameras offer significant improvements over the M9.
It is correct that a film camera is more tolerant of focus errors in real life than a digital one. The reason is that a film has a thickness which camouflages minor errors. And we don't view negatives at 100% or worse.

[a.noctilux]

@Marc B-C

If you can try the viewfinder in a shop or better Leica Dealer would be the best beginning.

Without doing this you may not find the answer if you can use or not manual RF focus M camera.

 

Suggestion if you can not try, take one of M240 to use a while.

Financial best ratio is M240 and family, even if you have budget for M10 that you can buy later.

Edited March 23, 2022 by a.noctilux

[Marc B-C]

2 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

@Marc B-C

If you can try the viewfinder in a shop or better Leica Dealer would be the best beginning.

Without doing this you may not find the answer if you can use or not manual RF focus M camera.

 

Suggestion if you can not try, take one of M240 to use a while.

Financial best ratio is M240 and family, even if you have budget for M10 that you can buy later.

Sadly there is no dealer near me who stocks Leica. Wex are within 20 miles but do not stock any Leica kit in the local store.

I am now looking around for an M240, however, the question was more about is there a lens/M combination that will give me a better chance at manual RF focus @archive_all has given me some thoughts to work with so will start there. 

Thanks all for the responses to date.

[a.noctilux]

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With my M240 and family, I'm happy with Leica "cheap" Summarit-M family lenses, 35/50/75.

Small, light, ease of focussing (quick and butter smooth to 80cm with 35/50) and with f/2.5 at max, not fear of misfocus.

 

This combo works great for me, since many years now, M240 family plus Summarit f/2.5.

[Cattoo]

 Echo the suggestions for a 35mm lens.  I wouldn't suggest a 50 if you're worried about eyesight and focusing. 28mm would be even easier to focus, but may be less practical.

[Marc B-C]

11 minutes ago, Cattoo said:

 Echo the suggestions for a 35mm lens.  I wouldn't suggest a 50 if you're worried about eyesight and focusing. 28mm would be even easier to focus, but may be less practical.

I like the 28mm fl, so if it is easier to focus it ticks two boxes already. 

[a.noctilux]

Marc, then beginning with M240 + Elmarit-M asph. 28mm * would do.

* I use this 28mm one of the smallest/lightest

very good all around lens

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as we can see here the large dof scale RF focussing will not be difficult even wide open

good thing comparing to my 28mm Summicron-M, this tiny lens hides very little the VF

 

Edited March 28, 2022 by a.noctilux

[Marc B-C]

30 minutes ago, a.noctilux said:

Marc, then beginning with M240 + Elmarit-M asph. 28mm * would do.

* I use this 28mm one of the smallest/lightest

very good all around lens

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as we can see here the large dof scale RF focussing will not be difficult even wide open

good thing comparing to my 28mm Summicron-M, this tiny lens hides very little the VF

 

Thank you Arnaud. Very helpful.

[Jeff S]

In general, be sure your eyes are first corrected as best as possible, especially if you have astigmatism.  I wear glasses for distance and astigmatism, yet still benefit focus-wise by adding a +.5 diopter, which was determined by testing free trial diopters in front of the VF at my local optician.  The focus patch on all M bodies is set at a virtual distance of 2m (minus .5 diopter built in).  Ideally one needs to see the focus patch clearly, but also subjects at varying distances. 
 

Compared to the M240, the M10 VF has a larger diameter opening, higher magnification (.73x vs .68x) and better eye relief. Some people recognize improvements, while others see none. Math tells only part of the story when it comes to the VF and focusing; there is no substitute for actual experience.  And that’s true not just for focusing, but also being able to see the frame lines for different focal lengths.

Jeff

[a.noctilux]

You are welcome, Marc.

I use happily the trio of 28mm from Leica.

They complete each other for different job.

Size comparison, for fun ...

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[Guest]

Hi Arnaud, how do you feel the 28mm Elmarit ASPH compares with Summicron ASPH at similar apertures? I currently have the Elmarit ASPH v2 for my M10-R BP, but once in awhile consider whether to switch to the Summicron, given 28mm is my fave FL. On the other hand, the compactness and weight of the Elmarit is wonderfully balanced on the M and as a daily reportage go-everywhere camera. And in general, the Elmarit is a wonderful optic to my eye. Some also say, that the Elmarit performs better than the Summicron on high-res sensor like M10-R. But again, I'm not a pixel peeper at all.

Would love to hear your thoughts/experience with both lenses?

Best, Mads

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Forgot to tag you, @a.noctilux 😊

[timo01]

35mm 🥰

[a.noctilux]

10 hours ago, mcpallesen said:

Hi Arnaud, how do you feel the 28mm Elmarit ASPH compares with Summicron ASPH at similar apertures? I currently have the Elmarit ASPH v2 for my M10-R BP, but once in awhile consider whether to switch to the Summicron, given 28mm is my fave FL. On the other hand, the compactness and weight of the Elmarit is wonderfully balanced on the M and as a daily reportage go-everywhere camera. And in general, the Elmarit is a wonderful optic to my eye. Some also say, that the Elmarit performs better than the Summicron on high-res sensor like M10-R. But again, I'm not a pixel peeper at all.

Would love to hear your thoughts/experience with both lenses?

Best, Mads

Hello Mads,

sorry, I never took time to compare these lenses "at same aperture".

They are good enough for me at all aperture.

I use only one 28mm each time, my choice is the max aperture for each planned photos, with in mind size/weight to carry and the hiding VF factor.

When in need I use also the big brother I almost sold (my wife asked me not to sell ! )Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50 (MATE !) hoping f/4 is enough and huge VF hiding.

 

As 28mm lenses nut, I use also other 28mm

other choices M-Hexanon, Ricoh LTM and Canon LTM

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Edited March 29, 2022 by a.noctilux

[IkarusJohn]

There were enough improvements in the M10 to make that your first choice, with prices falling a bit.

As for lenses, I'd echo Jaap's comment - the 35 Zeiss Biogon ZM was going to be my choice, until I succumbed to the charms of the 35 Distagon ZM.  An M10, with the 35 Biogon would be a nice, compact package with excellent image quality.  Focusing wouldn't be a problem, I would think.

If you prefer 28mm (are you keeping your Q2?  If so, a 50 might be a better choice), then I would suggest the 28 Summaron-M.  It's small, charming and easy to focus.  It's only issue is it's quite expensive for an f/5.6 lens and it's quite slow - you're not going to get those shallow depth of field images with the Summaron.  But, it's easy to zone focus and its IQ is fantastic for a lens designed 60 years ago.  My other 28 is the Summilux, which I love, but it's expensive.  Never gelled with either the 28 or 35 Summicron.

A 50 might go better with your Q2.  The stand-out for image quality and price (for its speed) is the 50 Summilux-M ASPH.  It's a fabulous lens, and would be my one 50 lens choice, I think (I have 3 others).  If you're worried about focus with this lens (it is critical), I use a 1.4x magnifier for 50mm and 75mm focal lengths.  Not sure if Leica makes a magnifier that fits the M10 - mine fits my Monochrom (based on the M9), but doesn't fit my M10-D.  

The new Visoflex might solve your focusing issues - it works with the M10 series cameras.  I have the older and much maligned 020 version, and I'm happy with it.

Hope this helps.  There's something about the purity of the M system which is addictive.

Cheers
John

[WvE]

If you're going 50, I'd consider a used Summarit 50 2.4. It's super light and compact and has a focus tab (if you like that). The Summarits are undervalued lenses that perform very well and, won't break the bank.   

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[pippy]

On 3/28/2022 at 10:42 PM, Jeff S said:

...Math tells only part of the story when it comes to the VF and focusing; there is no substitute for actual experience...

This is an interesting point. My two Digi-M bodies share the same 0.68 v/f magnification yet for some reason I find that one body is slightly easier to focus than the other...

As far as the question put in the OP is concerned I'd echo Arnaud's suggestion of an M240 (family) body matched with a 28mm Elmarit asph. From personal experience the combination of the 24mp CMOS sensor and the IQ of the Elmarit is easily good enough to allow for A2-sized prints so, if absolutely neccessary, cropping-in to a frame down to, say, the equivalent of a 50mm lens is not really going to be a problem for more 'normal'-sized prints.

Good luck in your choice, Marc!

Philip.