Voigtlander Ultron Vintage Line 35mm f/2 Aspherical Type II VM - binding focus

[hmzimelka]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

12 hours ago, Rick22 said:

tldr: Buy the first version. Re-greasing with Helimax-XP on inner and outer Helicoid didn't work completely for me. Going for another attempt with other grease in near future.

---

So I also have version 2 of this lens, which indeed binds and grinds when I got it. I took the challenge to re-grease it. I didn't have a lot of experience, so I first practised on an old Nikkor lens. Watched some youtube videos, and got the right tools. I noticed that preparation, calmness, patience, time, confidence, caution, precision and perseverance were needed in the process. Luckily during the operation it turned out I had enough of those this time.

I had a disassembly guide of version 1 at hand, for the first part (the construction is almost the same on the inside), link below. The rest I found out by trial and error. But with the above skills it was manageable, and after assembling and de-assembling a few times, I can now do it quite easily.

https://yukosteel.wordpress.com/2021/05/02/disassembly-voigtlander-35mm-f2-ultron-vintage-line-leica-m-mount/

The results: I used Helimax-XP for the outer helicoid. And that in my case was not enough. The outer helicoid on its own was buttery smooth, but when the attachment to the inner helicoid was made again, the binding and grinding was back. So I decided to also re-grease the inner helicoid(s), it consists of two parts, and that made improvement. But not enough yet to my likings. It is smooth now mostly. There is no binding anymore. Also when putting pressure on the focus tab, no binding. There is still a faint grinding where there was grinding before. In my case in the focussing from 1.5 meters to close focus distance. But hey, once you know, you cannot ignore. But it could be usable. But the Helimax-XP gives too much resistance to the focus to my taste. I cannot use one finger in the focussing tab to focus, I have to use a finger on top as well. That is not good enough I think.

So I decided to order another kind of grease, it is on it's way, it should give lighter focussing action. Let's see.

Note: during the learning process, I now understand that the amount of resistance is a matter of taste, and what I've read also depends on the thread of the helicoid. So it seems there is not one grease for every situation... Helimax-XP can be wonderful in other scenarios. Just for me with this lens, it was not the right choice.

Note 2: Before I started with the re-greasing, I tried to put the lens in the oven at 35 Celsius, and every few minutes do some focussing sessions. But that did not help in my case.

Note 3: My understanding of perfect focussing are my Zeiss Makro Planar ZF.2 and Voigtlander 50mm 1.2 VM. I do not know and expect I will get this lens at that level. But I want to get the annoyance out of the focussing, and it's nice to learn to re-grease a lens. I consider it my learning lens. And because of the price, I am more cautious, patience and precise then I thought I could be.

 

Thanks for the update. My lens has not bound up again since I changed up the grease and exercised the lens excessively at every opportunity. 

My guess was that the outer helicoid also ingests dirt and pieces of black plastic left behind from the rear lens cap. I'm consistently getting bits of black plastic on all my CV lenses from these rear lens caps.  As my lens behaved smoothly for a while, then bound up a little, and with a few movements was free and smooth again.  Lately, even in storage for a couple of weeks, the focus is still smooth. But my assumption about the plastic or dirt ingestion may not be correct or only partly the cause. I don't know.

I'm curious what the actual issue is with this lens... The Ultron 28mm f/2 ASPH looks and feels very different with regards to its design. 

What grease did you end up ordering now?

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by hmzimelka

[Rick22]

8 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

What grease did you end up ordering now?

Pig Iron grade 10. Maybe a bit extreme  

If it's too thin, I can go with grade 30 maybe. I do not have a clue how this compares to the Hobby Tool #10. It's synthetic.

http://www.pigiron.eu/Grease.html (no https site available, bought it on ebay)

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Rick22]

Well, the Pig Iron grade 10 came in. And I first substituted the Helimax XP with the Pig Iron 10. And yes, this is the right resistance for me. Very light focus action. But the grinding returned. It seemed to me that it came from the big inner plastic ring/helicoid which screws in the iron/brass(?) helicoid part. So I replaced the Pig Iron 10 with the Helimax XP on that connection. And that worked. I do have to note that the amount of tightness of screwing back the ring that secures the lens element block into the focus part of the lens (the last ring on the outside of the lens to put the lens back together), does have a big impact on the binding and grinding. If I secure it too much, it binds. So I have it a bit loose. Just so that the lens elements block start to have a little play, but minimal. Also on the inside where the two "stop" tabs are to achieve close and infinity focus: if you tighten the screws too much, there is binding and grinding. So I just screwed them until they are not moving, but then stopped, no tightening.

I'm curious if the amount of tightening, having influence, is a normal thing with lenses?

The end result is nice light focussing with a hint of grinding going from infinity to close focus. But not annoyingly any more. Far from perfect, but OK. Can focus with one finger. When putting pressure on the focussing tab, the grinding gets a bit worse, but it does not bind.

Think I'll keep it like this for a while

Edited August 3, 2022 by Rick22

[scleake]

On 5/4/2022 at 3:06 AM, Dzongkha said:

 

so you don't have the 35 Ultron II anymore? Which lens did you finally switch to?

But all in all i see it the same way. I also don't want disassembling a brand new lens and having to 'fix' this myself.

No. I returned three versions of that lens though I really wanted to love it. I still have the 35mm Voigtlander Nockton Classic VII MC f/1.4 and the Ultron 35mm f/1.7 Aspherical. These are two totally different lenses, both having their strong points. However, I have seldom used either one and they usually remain boxed and as new since acquiring the Ultron Vintage 28mm f/2 Aspherical type II - the 28mm version of the lens in question. As I originally wrote, the 28mm exhibited none of the binding issues discussed here and has been as smooth as silk right out of the box, as where the two 35's I still have but do not use. I'm satisfied with the 28mm and 50mm combo for now but would still like a copy of the 35mm Ultron II with some assurance the binding issue has been addressed/resolved. 

[rramesh]

I have had no issues with my copy but this is what I observed on another.

For most users, greater pressure is applied on the tab pushing down when the focus ring is moved counter-clockwise as opposed to clockwise. Hence the binding.

It's likely nothing to do with the kind of grease applied. Rather to do with the thickness of the focus ring. Too much pressure and it may deform. I guess that's the compromise made to make a small and light lens. One needs to be gentle with this lens.

There is no issue reported with the V1 as its body is made of aluminium and not brass. Maybe the ring is thicker.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by rramesh

[Patrick1955]

All very interesting.  I recently contacted the Australian Distributor (Mainline Photographics) about the apparent unavailability of an Ultron 35mm f2 vII in Au and was advised "We had a faulty batch with a machining issue. We are now waiting on replacements which are due in late August.." .  I wonder whether that machining issue affected more than just the batch received here in Au. 

[Rick22]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

10 hours ago, rramesh said:

I have had no issues with my copy but this is what I observed on another.

For most users, greater pressure is applied on the tab pushing down when the focus ring is moved counter-clockwise as opposed to clockwise. Hence the binding.

It's likely nothing to do with the kind of grease applied. Rather to do with the thickness of the focus ring. Too much pressure and it may deform. I guess that's the compromise made to make a small and light lens. One needs to be gentle with this lens.

There is no issue reported with the V1 as its body is made of aluminium and not brass. Maybe the ring is thicker.

 

Could be true about the grease, that is doesn't matter that much. The grinding seems to always remain, the kind of grease can have influence on how well you feel the grinding. The binding could be due to the construction of the lens, that could be an explanation why the binding is gone when changing the amount of tightness on the screws.

But it is not only due to the pressure applied. The grinding happens only in one direction, with the same force applied. And that force can be minimal, and you can still notice the grinding at certain points in the focussing scale. But my suspicion indeed is a construction error. Hence my advice to buy version 1 if possible.

[Rick22]

9 hours ago, Patrick1955 said:

All very interesting.  I recently contacted the Australian Distributor (Mainline Photographics) about the apparent unavailability of an Ultron 35mm f2 vII in Au and was advised "We had a faulty batch with a machining issue. We are now waiting on replacements which are due in late August.." .  I wonder whether that machining issue affected more than just the batch received here in Au. 

That is very interesting indeed. Please keep us up to date

[Cthulhu]

On 8/4/2022 at 4:03 AM, scleake said:

No. I returned three versions of that lens though I really wanted to love it. I still have the 35mm Voigtlander Nockton Classic VII MC f/1.4 and the Ultron 35mm f/1.7 Aspherical. These are two totally different lenses, both having their strong points. However, I have seldom used either one and they usually remain boxed and as new since acquiring the Ultron Vintage 28mm f/2 Aspherical type II - the 28mm version of the lens in question. As I originally wrote, the 28mm exhibited none of the binding issues discussed here and has been as smooth as silk right out of the box, as where the two 35's I still have but do not use. I'm satisfied with the 28mm and 50mm combo for now but would still like a copy of the 35mm Ultron II with some assurance the binding issue has been addressed/resolved. 

The fix for this issue is just to order the Type I version. The images will be just as lovely. 

[Rick22]

Well I did one more reassemble after I've been out shooting and still didn't like the focus action. I tightened the inner screws, and the last ring as well, like it was when I got it. This returns the binding under pressure, but gives better focus action. So basically I'm now back to how it was, only with a much lighter focus action, due to the other greases.

The loosening of the screws wasn't a good solution, because they will come more loose, and the lens is wiggling a whole lot as well. Just to inform you completely on my adventure. It is usable, I'm not annoyed anymore when focussing. I learned a lot about assembling lenses and re-greasing them.

[Patrick1955]

I did finally acquire a new VC 35mm f2 Ultron VII and thankfully I have had no grinding or binding during focus.  Like Rick22, I do find the tension during focussing to be a little tight, preferring a loose one finger action, but I suspect that is grease/lubricant related.  If it continues to annoy I will consider regrease, but for now I am getting use to it and I don't find it too annoying.