Voigtlander Ultron Vintage Line 35mm f/2 Aspherical Type II VM - binding focus

[genji]

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My copies of the Ultron 35/2 v2 and Ultron 28/2 v2 (both purchased from the Australian distributor) have performed perfectly as far as the focusing ring is concerned—no binding on either lens. But I dislike their haptics (the lenses are too small for my taste) so I’m replacing them with Leica-branded lenses.

[Dzongkha]

I have the same problem. From close distance focus to infinity, the focus is absolutely smooth.
When I focus from infinity to close, the first third is very rough. Sometimes I can't get it to move smoothly and then all of a sudden the focus ring "jerks" forward.

Maybe I should just turn it back and forth for a long time - maybe it helps. Otherwise a great lens. Also visually it matches with the lenshood very well to my silver M.
Sharpness, size and bokeh are superb.

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[petereprice]

For all the reasons, stated in this thread, I decided to purchase Version I of this lens.  My understanding is that the optics are identical, but the housing and focus tab is different.  On version I, the focus is very smooth.  Adorama still has them in stock:  https://www.adorama.com/vt352m.html

[Dzongkha]

I'm on Rhodes right now, documenting my wife (a geologist) and her team in the field.
The longer I work with the 35mm Ultron II, the more I get annoyed with the focus problem. It's very very rough and hooky.
My 50 Zeiss ZM f2 on the other hand is buttery smooth in all directions and much much better to use.
Other than that, I like the lens. Now I'm thinking: sell that and switch to a Leica or Zeiss 35 - or does it make sense to maybe send it in under warranty and have it repaired? I'm a little worried that they will say "the problem is within tolerance"... hmm

[hmzimelka]

I think the standard yellow grease they use is too thick or has too much damping.

Mine was binding too, and felt inconsistently uneven at time. I removed some of the grease which helped a bit, but it would be very stiff after being left for a few hours, and after a few turns, it would work itself free and become easier to turn again.

I replaced the grease with a lighter one, and now it's smooth and light with no unevenness. I only needed to do this on the outer helicoid.

I'm also guessing that the break in period for this lens is quite long. My lens become considerably easier to focus after a month... but I was impatient. 

I don't think this is a build quality issue. The lens looks to be well made inside and the helicoids turn smoothly. I simply think its not the best type of grease, and I think the mass of external brass may be contributing something with regard to different expansion coefficients to the often used aluminium shells Voigtlander uses. But I'm not sure. just my 2 cents.

How much grease is visible on the outer helicoid on your copies that are stiff?

Edited May 3, 2022 by hmzimelka

[Siriusone59]

4 hours ago, hmzimelka said:

I think the standard yellow grease they use is too thick or has too much damping.

Mine was binding too, and felt inconsistently uneven at time. I removed some of the grease which helped a bit, but it would be very stiff after being left for a few hours, and after a few turns, it would work itself free and become easier to turn again.

I replaced the grease with a lighter one, and now it's smooth and light with no unevenness. I only needed to do this on the outer helicoid.

 

Just curious if you would tell us what grease you chose as a replacement?  I've considered doing the same to my copy but don't want to use something that might cause additional issues.  Thanks.

[hmzimelka]

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36 minutes ago, Siriusone59 said:

Just curious if you would tell us what grease you chose as a replacement?  I've considered doing the same to my copy but don't want to use something that might cause additional issues.  Thanks.

I used some Alpine Astronomical Baader Machine-Grease #3 mixed with a little Japan-Hoby #10.

I quite dislike the Japan Hobby #10 grease as it quickly has oil separation, which is a big issue with lenses, so I try and use it as little as possible.

Helimax-XP should be a good choice. I just can't get the stuff shipped here without spending a fortune on shipping. 

 

[scleake]

You guys are braver than I am to take a new lens disassemble and re-lube it. I have done similar things to 40 yr old Nikkor lenses but not one brand new, But, the lens is that good and worth the effort if comfortable doing so. As I have mentioned, with the first two I spent hours working the focus rings "to break them in" and with both they would sometimes feel fine then arbitrarily start the binding.again. Number three seemed fine out of the box but within 15 minutes the issue started first time out shooting. Came in boxed it up got an RMA and sent it back. In 50 yrs of shooting I had never experienced this and unwilling to except this as something the end user should have to do. The three Voightlanders I have and had before getting my "dream brass 35" are and were silky smooth. Although they do have serial numbers, I would like to see these leave the factory with a seal on the box. I wonder if any get resold as new - the end user cannot track the serial number so that # really means nothing. All good info!

[Dzongkha]

 

vor 11 Stunden schrieb scleake:

You guys are braver than I am to take a new lens disassemble and re-lube it. I have done similar things to 40 yr old Nikkor lenses but not one brand new, But, the lens is that good and worth the effort if comfortable doing so. As I have mentioned, with the first two I spent hours working the focus rings "to break them in" and with both they would sometimes feel fine then arbitrarily start the binding.again. Number three seemed fine out of the box but within 15 minutes the issue started first time out shooting. Came in boxed it up got an RMA and sent it back. In 50 yrs of shooting I had never experienced this and unwilling to except this as something the end user should have to do. The three Voightlanders I have and had before getting my "dream brass 35" are and were silky smooth. Although they do have serial numbers, I would like to see these leave the factory with a seal on the box. I wonder if any get resold as new - the end user cannot track the serial number so that # really means nothing. All good info!

so you don't have the 35 Ultron II anymore? Which lens did you finally switch to?

But all in all i see it the same way. I also don't want disassembling a brand new lens and having to 'fix' this myself.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Dzongkha

[hmzimelka]

12 hours ago, scleake said:

You guys are braver than I am to take a new lens disassemble and re-lube it. I have done similar things to 40 yr old Nikkor lenses but not one brand new, But, the lens is that good and worth the effort if comfortable doing so. As I have mentioned, with the first two I spent hours working the focus rings "to break them in" and with both they would sometimes feel fine then arbitrarily start the binding.again. Number three seemed fine out of the box but within 15 minutes the issue started first time out shooting. Came in boxed it up got an RMA and sent it back. In 50 yrs of shooting I had never experienced this and unwilling to except this as something the end user should have to do. The three Voightlanders I have and had before getting my "dream brass 35" are and were silky smooth. Although they do have serial numbers, I would like to see these leave the factory with a seal on the box. I wonder if any get resold as new - the end user cannot track the serial number so that # really means nothing. All good info!

Yeah I get it. It's so unnecessary. 

However, this issue for me is nothing that would make consider ditching Voigtlander in favour of Leica. My Leica lens experience has been an order of magnitude worse, and worse of all at considerable financial loss. I would still take a Voigtlander lens over a Leica lens any day and trust that it's build and optical centring and calibration is better than that of Leica. I don't live in a country where I can buy and return a lens. So there is a risk for me to buy lenses and cameras, and with Leica that is simply not worth it for me.

[Siriusone59]

On 5/3/2022 at 2:09 PM, scleake said:

You guys are braver than I am to take a new lens disassemble and re-lube it. I have done similar things to 40 yr old Nikkor lenses but not one brand new, But, the lens is that good and worth the effort if comfortable doing so. As I have mentioned, with the first two I spent hours working the focus rings "to break them in" and with both they would sometimes feel fine then arbitrarily start the binding.again. 

Don't know about brave, in my case maybe stupid, but like you I've done it with older lenses.  I may not even mess with this one since it seems to be getting better with more use.  I have noticed that if I put even the slightest upward pressure against the focusing tab it will try to bind...but as mentioned earlier, it's better than it was.  I'm tempted to tear it down, clean and use some lapping compound on the helicoid for a few cycles, then clean again and re-lube but will probably wait until it totally locks up...which maybe(hopefully) will be never.  It's sad that Voigtlander let so many of these get out with this issue.  They should take notice to our complaints and provide a fix.

[NightPix]

On 4/20/2022 at 4:45 AM, Dzongkha said:

I have the same problem. From close distance focus to infinity, the focus is absolutely smooth.
When I focus from infinity to close, the first third is very rough. Sometimes I can't get it to move smoothly and then all of a sudden the focus ring "jerks" forward.

Maybe I should just turn it back and forth for a long time - maybe it helps. Otherwise a great lens. Also visually it matches with the lenshood very well to my silver M.
Sharpness, size and bokeh are superb.

I purchased the Voigtlander 35 f/2 Ultron VM II for my SL2 and had the same problem discussed in this thread - focus sticking around the 7 ft position when focusing down from infinity. The sticking did not occur, or was greatly reduced when the camera was pointed at the ceiling. I spent ~15 minutes moving the focus tab back and forth, which helped some, but didn't solve the problem. I took an an hour long photowalk in 90 degree Florida heat to take some test shots and - to my surprise - the sticking issue disappeared completely. I'm guessing that the heat softened the lubricant enough to allow it to re-distribute more evenly. Whatever the reason, I'm happy with the lens so far.

Edited May 6, 2022 by NightPix

[kivis]

This lens has been a flawless performer for me since day one. Just saying.

[Huss]

5 hours ago, kivis said:

This lens has been a flawless performer for me since day one. Just saying.

There is something wrong with your lens.

[lct]

Lenses need to be used. Mine was a bit sticky at first and is butter smooth now.

[Siriusone59]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:46 PM, lct said:

Lenses need to be used. Mine was a bit sticky at first and is butter smooth now.

It is a good quality lens and that is why many of us are willing to find solutions to fix any problems rather than discard it for something different. It stays on my camera 90% of the time.

[rramesh]

Maybe it's due to shipment by air (cold) that causes the grease to harden on arrival. I had no problems with mine with use.

[Huss]

On 5/17/2022 at 2:46 PM, lct said:

Lenses need to be used. Mine was a bit sticky at first and is butter smooth now.

Crunchy peanut butter smooth?

[lct]

24 minutes ago, Huss said:

Crunchy peanut butter smooth?

Silky Normandy butter smooth.  No good for cholesterol .

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Rick22]

tldr: Buy the first version. Re-greasing with Helimax-XP on inner and outer Helicoid didn't work completely for me. Going for another attempt with other grease in near future.

---

So I also have version 2 of this lens, which indeed binds and grinds when I got it. I took the challenge to re-grease it. I didn't have a lot of experience, so I first practised on an old Nikkor lens. Watched some youtube videos, and got the right tools. I noticed that preparation, calmness, patience, time, confidence, caution, precision and perseverance were needed in the process. Luckily during the operation it turned out I had enough of those this time.

I had a disassembly guide of version 1 at hand, for the first part (the construction is almost the same on the inside), link below. The rest I found out by trial and error. But with the above skills it was manageable, and after assembling and de-assembling a few times, I can now do it quite easily.

https://yukosteel.wordpress.com/2021/05/02/disassembly-voigtlander-35mm-f2-ultron-vintage-line-leica-m-mount/

The results: I used Helimax-XP for the outer helicoid. And that in my case was not enough. The outer helicoid on its own was buttery smooth, but when the attachment to the inner helicoid was made again, the binding and grinding was back. So I decided to also re-grease the inner helicoid(s), it consists of two parts, and that made improvement. But not enough yet to my likings. It is smooth now mostly. There is no binding anymore. Also when putting pressure on the focus tab, no binding. There is still a faint grinding where there was grinding before. In my case in the focussing from 1.5 meters to close focus distance. But hey, once you know, you cannot ignore. But it could be usable. But the Helimax-XP gives too much resistance to the focus to my taste. I cannot use one finger in the focussing tab to focus, I have to use a finger on top as well. That is not good enough I think.

So I decided to order another kind of grease, it is on it's way, it should give lighter focussing action. Let's see.

Note: during the learning process, I now understand that the amount of resistance is a matter of taste, and what I've read also depends on the thread of the helicoid. So it seems there is not one grease for every situation... Helimax-XP can be wonderful in other scenarios. Just for me with this lens, it was not the right choice.

Note 2: Before I started with the re-greasing, I tried to put the lens in the oven at 35 Celsius, and every few minutes do some focussing sessions. But that did not help in my case.

Note 3: My understanding of perfect focussing are my Zeiss Makro Planar ZF.2 and Voigtlander 50mm 1.2 VM. I do not know and expect I will get this lens at that level. But I want to get the annoyance out of the focussing, and it's nice to learn to re-grease a lens. I consider it my learning lens. And because of the price, I am more cautious, patience and precise then I thought I could be.

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Rick22