Printing M10M files

[Jeff S]

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My fault… I can’t resist the urge to discuss printing at home (post #5), even when asked about outsourcing.

Jeff

[dbeids]

12 hours ago, Jeff S said:

My fault… I can’t resist the urge to discuss printing at home (post #5), even when asked about outsourcing.

Jeff

I found the print at home thread very helpful. I’ve been ruminating about upgrading my old Mac Pro and NEC monitor as well. The ImagePrint software, which I’d never heard of before, will be part of the upgrade when I replace my old, no longer supported, Epson. 
 

Thank you for the information. 

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[Fedro]

I found this thread interesting, I have never done printing at home, but may well give it a go. I would mostly do M10M files with the occasional M10R in colour

@Jeff S reading what you have written above, I understand that a good printer and ImagePrint would be a good place to start, would that work  with a newbye who is not particularly techie?

And if I print mostly A3 and A2 (I do the occasional A1 but rare) would the Epson 900 would be a good one to get?

Thank you in advance and apologies if already covered

[Jeff S]

20 minutes ago, Fedro said:

 

@Jeff S reading what you have written above, I understand that a good printer and ImagePrint would be a good place to start, would that work  with a newbye who is not particularly techie?

And if I print mostly A3 and A2 (I do the occasional A1 but rare) would the Epson 900 would be a good one to get?

Thank you in advance and apologies if already covered

There are many ways to start.  As with photo gear, buying the latest and greatest equipment doesn’t ensure great results, but it can potentially help; user skill and decision making remain paramount. A P900 is a top line printer for home use.  It prints up to 17 inches on one side, so no A1 prints.  I use its predecessor, the P800, and it serves me well.  I like the greater ink capacity of the P800, but the P900 has advantages for switching between matte and gloss blacks, etc. If I were buying new, I’d look closely at the P900 and the Canon Pro 1000. Pros and cons.

ImagePrint will cost about as much as a discounted printer (printer rebates are common to gain ongoing ink sales), and is fantastic software. Before that, I still made nice prints using LR/Photoshop and the Epson print driver, and bought custom profiles for my favorite papers. But IP has now spoiled me; I wouldn’t be without it.

The Digital Post Processing forum section has many related discussions, and I encourage browsing and seeking out frequently mentioned resources, including books and videos.  Once up and running, the forum is a good place to ask questions.  I’ve been happy to offer requested advice to several people who also started here and now love to print, as well as to some experienced printers who added IP to their workflow. There’s a learning curve for printing (which never ends), just like the rest of photography, but for me, producing a fine print of a worthy pic is the best reward. Especially one that I then custom mat and frame on my own… but that’s another discussion.

Jeff

 

[Fedro]

3 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

There are many ways to start.  As with photo gear, buying the latest and greatest equipment doesn’t ensure great results, but it can potentially help; user skill and decision making remain paramount. A P900 is a top line printer for home use.  It prints up to 17 inches on one side, so no A1 prints.  I use its predecessor, the P800, and it serves me well.  I like the greater ink capacity of the P800, but the P900 has advantages for switching between matte and gloss blacks, etc. If I were buying new, I’d look closely at the P900 and the Canon Pro 1000. Pros and cons.

ImagePrint will cost about as much as a discounted printer (printer rebates are common to gain ongoing ink sales), and is fantastic software. Before that, I still made nice prints using LR/Photoshop and the Epson print driver, and bought custom profiles for my favorite papers. But IP has now spoiled me; I wouldn’t be without it.

The Digital Post Processing forum section has many related discussions, and I encourage browsing and seeking out frequently mentioned resources, including books and videos.  Once up and running, the forum is a good place to ask questions.  I’ve been happy to offer requested advice to several people who also started here and now love to print, as well as to some experienced printers who added IP to their workflow. There’s a learning curve for printing (which never ends), just like the rest of photography, but for me, producing a fine print of a worthy pic is the best reward. Especially one that I then custom mat and frame on my own… but that’s another discussion.

Jeff

 

Thanks Jeff, this is great. I will do some reading based on your thoughts above and then may come back with one or two more informed questions. I love printing and I do quite a bit at the printer. I wrongly assumed, I guess, that doing so at home would be very complicated. Like with most things in life it can be overcome with a mix of some expert guidance, enthusiastic curiosity and patience to go through trial and error. To be continued ..

[davidmknoble]

I agree with all the Jeff’s here. I also use the Epson PC800 and Image Print Black, and the ease of getting incredible prints is rewarding.  I used to use QuadTone RIP on an older Epson, but it still relied on the Epson driver.  Now I export an image the size I want to print, center it on the paper and choose the type of paper and voila, IP doesn’t waste ink and the results are just - well great.

I know this is an iPhone 8 photo of a print, and it doesn’t do it justice, but this was one of my first M10M prints after having the camera for a week, but it was also made at ISO 50,000 or ISO 100,000, I forget which. Printed on Canson Baryta, PC 800, IP Black.

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[Jeff S]

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And to be clear, while IP simplifies printing in many ways, it also provides editing tools to fine tune and optimize the desired rendering.  I often tweak IP settings [to the histogram, contrast (DCM), sharpening, etc], very judiciously, for subtle refinement. Darkroom tools never just spit out prints, at least not great ones, without a user refinements.  Digital printing is no different; just the tools have changed.  For me, LR and Photoshop are marvelous tools,  but for printing, IP offers another level of both ease and user control.

Jeff

[Jon Warwick]

4 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I agree with all the Jeff’s here. I also use the Epson PC800 and Image Print Black, and the ease of getting incredible prints is rewarding.  I used to use QuadTone RIP on an older Epson, but it still relied on the Epson driver.  Now I export an image the size I want to print, center it on the paper and choose the type of paper and voila, IP doesn’t waste ink and the results are just - well great.

I know this is an iPhone 8 photo of a print, and it doesn’t do it justice, but this was one of my first M10M prints after having the camera for a week, but it was also made at ISO 50,000 or ISO 100,000, I forget which. Printed on Canson Baryta, PC 800, IP Black.

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

Even with just the iPhone shot, I look at that print and feel myself drawn into the rich tonal depth of the image. It’s almost as though I could reach out and feel the texture of those bags. I assume a reflection both of the benefits of the Monochrom sensor (over color filter array) and your skills as a printer!

Edited March 30, 2022 by Jon Warwick

[_Alex_]

On 3/13/2022 at 3:03 PM, Bibowj said:

Hello All- Has anyone thats stateside found a super great place to have M10M files printed? Id love to start printing more but Ive not found a lab that prints in the quality thats worthy of the M10M.

If you want to go down the (probably worthwhile) rabbit hole of printing your own, this might be a good place to start reading/learning: https://www.northlight-images.co.uk/photography-articles-and-reviews/printing-paper-reviews-articles/ 

 

[fotografr]

I also recommend the Epson P800 or the replacement P900. 

ImagePrint is excellent. So is QuadToneRip. That's what I use and the results could not make me happier. Check it out here 

http://www.quadtonerip.com/html/QTRoverview.html

 

 

[Jeff S]

QTR is an excellent RIP.  IP, too, but with IP one is paying for a lot more than a RIP… profiles, professional production tools (cutting, etc) and lots more, much of which I’ll never use. The profiles alone, however, are worth it to me; equivalent custom profiling gear would cost double, besides the additional labor costs. Profiles are provided for all papers (made for free if not already done), color and greyscale, for varying lighting conditions, and for many Epson and Canon machines and ink sets .

Jeff

Edited April 2, 2022 by Jeff S

[fotografr]

I forgot to mention that QTR is free. You can pay the developer whatever you like, depending on how useful it is to you. Or you can pay nothing. I think I paid something like $20, primarily because I don't do much b&w printing.

Edited April 2, 2022 by fotografr

[Jeff S]

Yep, Piezography uses QTR shareware to enable their inks to work with Epson printers.

Jeff

[Jeff S]

8 minutes ago, fotografr said:

…primarily because I don't do much b&w printing.

Your Monochroms deserve better. 😉

Jeff

[Stuart Richardson]

I just want to swing by and stir the pot slightly. I don't think most photographers printing at home need something like Image Print. I am not saying that they might not prefer it if they get used to it, or that it has no value, only that it is a substantial expense that is in no way required to get good prints. I have been running a Hahnemuhle Certified Studio since 2009, and not once in that time have I needed to resort to a RIP to get good results. I print everything out of Lightroom or Photoshop using either the lightroom/photoshop tools or ABW mode in the Epson driver.

I have used QTR in the past and liked it, but the ABW mode is so good since the 9900 series that it is really not worth going to a third party solution unless you are looking to do something particularly fancy with split toning. I am not trying to talk myself up, but I work for the most prestigious galleries and museums in the country and have made work sitting in private collections and museum collections across Europe...quality is not an issue. Epson and Adobe engineers know what they are doing, and they provide very capable, if at times opaque and frustrating software. The only times I have really felt like I wanted a RIP were more about things like handling print nesting, non-standard margins, or really digging deep into individual ink channel control. I think the vast majority of photographers are not going to hit the limit of quality possible from today's printers using standard software. Most of the other master printers I know also tend to stick with the stock tools. If they use a RIP, it is often more to help deal with print layout for larger jobs rather than a perceived lack in quality of the standard software. Commercial printing houses seem to rely more on RIPs because they allow for things to be more standardized and harder to mess up, especially if you have a higher volume of printing and a lower experience level in the technicians doing the work.

[Jeff S]

Yep, as I noted, I made superb prints using LR and Photoshop. And know others who use QTR, Piezo and the rest. IP is a luxury, not a requirement, and I’ve mentioned a half dozen reasons in various discussions why it now suits me (print quality just one).

Never suggested that one start out with IP; quite the opposite. The key tools for success, as with all aspects of photography, reside within the user.

No pot stirring required.

Jeff

Edited April 2, 2022 by Jeff S

[Stuart Richardson]

Hi Jeff. I wasn't only referring to you. The overall sense I got reading the thread was that a RIP was needed to take things to the next level. That goes against my experience. But now we all said our piece and all is good in the world (if only).

Meanwhile, in response to the original question, I have heard great things about Sergio Purtell in NYC, and he is a phenomenal photographer himself, so I believe them. I have worked on some film recorded images that he made, and they were excellent (taking a digital file and outputting it on a 4x5 neg). Much better than I had seen before. 

http://www.bwonw.com/about.html

And of course anyone in Iceland (or elsewhere, if you have a larger job that would be worth mailing) is welcome to contact me. I primarily take on jobs that are worth more than about 350 dollars these days though, as I am focusing primarily on exhibition work, editions or artwork reproduction. One advantage I have about working abroad, however, is that I do not have to charge the 24% VAT. Generally I find it is best to work with the client in person the first time, however, so if you are outside Iceland that becomes harder.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[fotografr]

3 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Your Monochroms deserve better. 😉

Jeff

I'm out of wall space.🥴

Edited April 2, 2022 by fotografr

[Jeff S]

7 minutes ago, fotografr said:

I'm out of wall space.🥴

99% of my prints never get matted or framed, but can be enjoyed by me and others via loose prints, portfolio binders, small groupings, etc. But even the wall hung prints get rotated regularly to keep things fresh, create new pairings, etc. Sequencing prints also provides new ideas for projects, books (one day), etc. And, when I’m gone, prints will likely be the only work others will access; nobody will care about digitally stored pics.  Plus prints just look much better; phone pics can look fine on a screen.

Jeff

 

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[fotografr]

45 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

99% of my prints never get matted or framed, but can be enjoyed by me and others via loose prints, portfolio binders, small groupings, etc.

Jeff

 

When we finally get through this pandemic business I'm going to get involved with a local b&w photo group and at that point I'll be taking 5 to 10 prints to show and discuss every month, so my output will be increasing in the near future.