Printing M10M files

[Bibowj]

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Hello All- Has anyone thats stateside found a super great place to have M10M files printed? Id love to start printing more but Ive not found a lab that prints in the quality thats worthy of the M10M.

[Steve Ash]

whitewall

 

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[AlanT]

Digital Silver Imaging in Belmont Massachusetts. 

[RMF]

Yup +1-Digital Silver Imaging in Belmont Massachusetts

[Jeff S]

Why not do your own printing?  These are the best of times for printers, inks, paper choices and editing/printing software.  Other than for huge prints, which I don’t desire, no lab can serve my print needs better than I.

Jeff

[dgc]

17 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Why not do your own printing?  These are the best of times for printers, inks, paper choices and editing/printing software.  Other than for huge prints, which I don’t desire, no lab can serve my print needs better than I.

Jeff

What printer do you recommend for black and white images?

Thanks.

[Jeff S]

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2 hours ago, dgc said:

What printer do you recommend for black and white images?

Thanks.

I use an Epson P800 (17 inch printer), which has now been superseded by the P900.  The Canon Pro 1000 is another well regarded 17 inch alternative.
 

Some use dedicated b&w inks in older machines, e.g., Piezography from Jon Cone.  I instead use a full color printer, which still does a marvelous job using multiple black inks in addition to the color option.  My print workflow is especially enhanced by ImagePrint, an expensive software, but with many advantages including superb profiles for virtually all papers.
 

There are many related discussions in the DPP forum section. 

Jeff

[jplomley]

Epson Exhibition Fiber with the ABW mode delivers stupendous results. Advantage of using Epson's paper is that every parameter in the print driver is properly optimized. A 16 x 20 inch from from the M10M on this media is something to behold. 

[Alan Mead]

4 hours ago, jplomley said:

Epson Exhibition Fiber with the ABW mode delivers stupendous results. Advantage of using Epson's paper is that every parameter in the print driver is properly optimized. A 16 x 20 inch from from the M10M on this media is something to behold. 

Jeff, what is ABW mode? 

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Alan Mead said:

Jeff, what is ABW mode? 

Different Jeff here… but it’s Advanced B&W mode.

I personally have found ImagePrint to be even better than ABW mode, regardless of paper.  George DeWolfe, a well regarded printer, tested IP vs ABW vs Piezo, and similarly preferred IP (although the test was years ago… all versions have been updated). In the end, the user is still the key factor, just as with camera gear.

Jeff

[jplomley]

20 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

Different Jeff here… but it’s Advanced B&W mode.

I personally have found ImagePrint to be even better than ABW mode, regardless of paper.  George DeWolfe, a well regarded printer, tested IP vs ABW vs Piezo, and similarly preferred IP (although the test was years ago… all versions have been updated). In the end, the user is still the key factor, just as with camera gear.

Jeff

Interesting Jeff. I will look into that, many thanks. 

[Jeff S]

5 minutes ago, jplomley said:

Interesting Jeff. I will look into that, many thanks. 

IP Black is the latest version.  It includes superb profiles for all papers, including grayscale,  each for varying lighting conditions.  Runs in full time soft proof mode.

The folks at ColorByte (John Pannozzo), much like Jon Cone (Piezography), know as much about Epson machines as Epson, and have optimized their driver tech for each approved printer (IP also now runs some Canon machines).  
 

I also like not having to worry about color management, about software compatibility issues  (the Apple/Adobe/Epson chain, with constant updates) or with complicated printer settings.  IP optimizes all that once you choose a paper and print size, etc. It also provides editing tools for print fine tuning.  I use it as an external editor to LR Classic after I’ve done my basic edits there.  
 

Expensive, but much cheaper than buying custom profiling gear. Worth every penny for me; bigger bang for the buck than most of my other photo expenses.

Jeff

[Erato]

I love it. Not much post-process involve but it is outstanding.

[jplomley]

Hey Jeff,

Just a couple of Q's regarding your experience in printing M10M files:

1. On the Epson, I always aim for an image resolution of 360 ppi to match the native print resolution at 2880. However, on those occasions where I need to drop the image resolution to 240 ppi, there is significant softening in the final print. This tells me the Epson print driver does a terrible job of up-sampling from 240 - 360 ppi on a monochrome file. This is not the case for my color sensors (M10-R and SL2). Curious about your experience on this front.

2. In sharpening for final print, are you using High Pass or Smart Sharpen, or some other dedicated program. I find the M10M files can generate "halos" pretty easily, and "speckled" artifacts in shadows if not careful. Currently, I am using PhotoKit Sharpener's Output sharpening algorithms in combination with High Pass for creative sharpening. I'm pretty pleased with the results, but wonder of their are better approaches for the monochrome sensor that allows a greater degree of sharpening before the on-set of artifacts. 

3. What monitor resolution are you using, and at what image magnification are you using to gauge print sharpness. I'm about to move to an M1 Max Mac Studio, but have heard support for QHD monitors leaves a lot to be desired and I really need to pair this with an Eizo 27" QHD monitor.

Cheers for any advice/feedback you might have. Not sure there are many of us out there actually printing images anymore, so information is scarce when it comes to prepping files for print from this sensor!

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by jplomley

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, jplomley said:

Hey Jeff,

Just a couple of Q's regarding your experience in printing M10M files:

1. On the Epson, I always aim for an image resolution of 360 ppi to match the native print resolution at 2880. However, on those occasions where I need to drop the image resolution to 240 ppi, there is significant softening in the final print. This tells me the Epson print driver does a terrible job of up-sampling from 240 - 360 ppi on a monochrome file. This is not the case for my color sensors (M10-R and SL2). Curious about your experience on this front.

2. In sharpening for final print, are you using High Pass or Smart Sharpen, or some other dedicated program. I find the M10M files can generate "halos" pretty easily, and "speckled" artifacts in shadows if not careful. Currently, I am using PhotoKit Sharpener's Output sharpening algorithms in combination with High Pass for creative sharpening. I'm pretty pleased with the results, but wonder of their are better approaches for the monochrome sensor that allows a greater degree of sharpening before the on-set of artifacts. 

3. What monitor resolution are you using, and at what image magnification are you using to gauge print sharpness. I'm about to move to an M1 Max Mac Studio, but have heard support for QHD monitors leaves a lot to be desired and I really need to pair this with an Eizo 27" QHD monitor.

Cheers for any advice/feedback you might have. Not sure there are many of us out there actually printing images anymore, so information is scarce when it comes to prepping files for print from this sensor!

 

 

These are some of reasons why I like ImagePrint.  Its driver handles resolution and sizing issues, has good controls for final print sharpening , etc.  I print at relatively small sizes, so the ultimate test is looking at my prints based on varying settings. Once set, I barely worry about this stuff, other than fine tuning for minor print specific issues.  
 

For a more technical answer, here is ColorByte’s response regarding resolution/PPI issues (see Output Quality heading)…

https://colorbytesoftware.com/TechSupport/ImagePrint_Troubleshooting_OSX.pdf

I’ve had no problems using any of my cameras and printing with the P800, including the M10M.

My monitor is a 2009 NEC, which I’m planning to upgrade to an Eizo later this year when I swap out my similarly old Mac Pro with a Mac Studio. IP runs in full time soft proof mode, so I don’t waste much paper.  I know my papers and renderings, so I have a pretty good feel for print outcomes based on screen viewing (brightness has been turned down to avoid dark prints). 

IP allows me to spend more time thinking about my pics and prints, and less about a bunch of behind the scenes technical stuff.  I choose a paper profile and print size, and the software is smarter and more careful than I am about the controls/settings required for optimal results.  I can easily switch papers and merely enter new profile, not having to worry about printer settings (platen gap and all the other crap I used to deal with).

Jeff

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jeff S

[jplomley]

12 hours ago, Jeff S said:

These are some of reasons why I like ImagePrint.  Its driver handles resolution and sizing issues, has good controls for final print sharpening , etc.  I print at relatively small sizes, so the ultimate test is looking at my prints based on varying settings. Once set, I barely worry about this stuff, other than fine tuning for minor print specific issues.  
 

For a more technical answer, here is ColorByte’s response regarding resolution/PPI issues (see Output Quality heading)…

https://colorbytesoftware.com/TechSupport/ImagePrint_Troubleshooting_OSX.pdf

I’ve had no problems using any of my cameras and printing with the P800, including the M10M.

My monitor is a 2009 NEC, which I’m planning to upgrade to an Eizo later this year when I swap out my similarly old Mac Pro with a Mac Studio. IP runs in full time soft proof mode, so I don’t waste much paper.  I know my papers and renderings, so I have a pretty good feel for print outcomes based on screen viewing (brightness has been turned down to avoid dark prints). 

IP allows me to spend more time thinking about my pics and prints, and less about a bunch of behind the scenes technical stuff.  I choose a paper profile and print size, and the software is smarter and more careful than I am about the controls/settings required for optimal results.  I can easily switch papers and merely enter new profile, not having to worry about printer settings (platen gap and all the other crap I used to deal with).

Jeff

This is terrific information. Many thanks Jeff, looks like IP may solve a lot of headaches! 

[Jeff S]

I have no vested interest… just like the product.  Rare that software makes things both easier and (potentially) better… even though it costs as much as a printer.  Their service staff, at least in the US, is also very good at working through any problems.

You might consider a free trial (although I think it adds copyright info to every print). Also, their dongle arrangement for final setup is a bit clunky…but it works.

Jeff

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

I should also note that I use only a small fraction of IP’s capabilities. It can serve large production needs, all sorts of layout, publishing and cutout aids, etc. Kevin Raber, now at PhotoPXL, has produced several video interviews with John Pannozzo, who heads ColorByte.  He goes through all sorts of uses, most of which I’ll likely never need.  But it’s a sophisticated software, not just a RIP, still evolving.  I’m still running IP10, but will need to upgrade to the equivalent current IP Black once I move to a new Mac setup with more current OS.  
 

Jeff

Edited March 21, 2022 by Jeff S

[Jeff S]

I think we scared the OP away.

Jeff

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[jplomley]

1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

I think we scared the OP away.

Jeff

Mea culpa....did not mean to "tech it up" !