What’s the verdict with 18, 36, 60MP?

[Ktsa5239]

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I’m still on the fence on whether to get the M11 because I only got the M10R for a year. I think I really like the richer colours from the samples I’ve seen but I’m one of those people with bad technique that needs higher shutter speed (1/2f tends to work for me) for M10R to get rid of shake so I’m worried about 60MP.

Some reviewers say using 18, 36MP makes no difference and it’s best to just stay on 60 and down sample later. While some said there’s noise and DR advantage. I think for me I would most likely use it on 36MP for the size of prints I do. But what’s the actual verdict? Are you guys mostly staying on 60MP?or 36? Or 18?? Is there more than space saving benefits in your experience?

thanks!!

 

[opera207]

60MP doesn't shake much more than 45mp

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

I use mostly the 18MP and 60MP resolutions. It's a convenience thing. I'm pretty sure I'd get the same results doing reducing the file size in post but I'd rather do it in camera. Why have that extra step. When I shoot at 18MP I do see a little more usable DR at a pixel level but it's not a vast difference. Colours look identical. The main thing is that the buffer is huge at 18MP. Virtually unlimited. Versus 7-8 shots at 60MP before shooting slows down. Plus at a pixel level you might be able to handhold at slower speeds by reducing in post should see the same effect..

It's really just buffer and memory space. Maybe a quicker transfer time to the computer. But if you don't need the bigger files I see no reason not to shoot at the lower resolutions. I'm not seeing any downsides so far. I think most of my casual shooting will be at 18MP and at 60 only when I know I'll need it.

There were a few reports of a loss of *bite* in the 36MP files but I'm not seeing that in my workflow. 36MP is my least used resolution though. Currently 18MP is the most used.

Overall I'm a fan of the tri resolution feature.

Gordon

[Photoworks]

I am more in the set it and forget it.. 60 mp for me.. I don't know how the future is going to turn out, in a few years I may want 60mp, because the ordinance will be more aware of higher resolution..

 

I had tried 36MP and did test the Crop in future. the camera switches to 60MP when crop is on.

[Kwesi]

I skipped the 10R and went from 10P to M11 so for me it’s a significant jump in resolution. 
Like Photoworks above, I set it to 60mp and forget it. Regarding camera shake and blur, I haven’t noticed anything different. 

[Tailwagger]

On 3/13/2022 at 12:29 AM, FlashGordonPhotography said:

I use mostly the 18MP and 60MP resolutions. It's a convenience thing. I'm pretty sure I'd get the same results doing reducing the file size in post but I'd rather do it in camera.

I'd add that while I haven't shot much at 18Mpx, none effectively at 38Mpx, the opposite seems to be true as well.  Haven't a clue as to why, but I've noted that a good 18 Mpx photo gives the impression that it upscales far better than any other native 18Mpx file I've ever dealt with. Always hard to demonstrate here, but as a hopefully decent example, I took this fully processed shot, exported it to PS, set the image size to 200% and save it.  A 100% crop of what now is a ~72 MPx file.  How they do dat?!? So while I continue to shoot in 60Mpx, it's more out of fear than reality.

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

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7 hours ago, Tailwagger said:

I'd add that while I haven't shot much at 18Mpx, none effectively at 38Mpx, the opposite seems to be true as well.  Haven't a clue as to why, but I've noted that a good 18 Mpx photo gives the impression that it upscales far better than any other native 18Mpx file I've ever dealt with. Always hard to demonstrate here, but as a hopefully decent example, I took this fully processed shot, exported it to PS, set the image size to 200% and save it.  A 100% crop of what now is a ~72 MPx file.  How they do dat?!? So while I continue to shoot in 60Mpx, it's more out of fear than reality.

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yes. The new high res algorithm in PS and Lightroom is very cool. It's a bit spooky how good it is.

Gordon

[Ktsa5239]

Thanks everyone! 
Between this new function, the new metering, 64iso, electronic shutter, I really want to sell my M10R and get the 11….

just to clarify, so if you use the 18MP option, it still comes out as .DNG right? I don’t want it to be a jpeg

Edited March 15, 2022 by Ktsa5239

[SrMi]

5 hours ago, Ktsa5239 said:

Thanks everyone! 
Between this new function, the new metering, 64iso, electronic shutter, I really want to sell my M10R and get the 11….

just to clarify, so if you use the 18MP option, it still comes out as .DNG right? I don’t want it to be a jpeg

Yes, all three resolutions can be DNGs.

Edited March 15, 2022 by SrMi
are -> can be

[Tailwagger]

3 hours ago, SrMi said:

Yes, all three resolutions are DNGs.

...or jpgs or both. Selectable via menu. 

[_Alex_]

On 3/12/2022 at 3:27 PM, Ktsa5239 said:

... but I’m one of those people with bad technique that needs higher shutter speed (1/2f tends to work for me) for M10R to get rid of shake so I’m worried about 60MP.

 

I think you might want to consider the output of your files if you're concerned about seeing the shake at a higher resolution. I'm perfectly capable of some slightly unsharp images with my 24MP M10-P (my technique or motion blur) and find it doesn't really matter if I'm printing smaller images (say, your typical 4x6" - 8x10" range) or outputting to social media or the web. Slight blur might be more visible on a 60MP file, but it will only show up as less sharp if you're looking at it full size or cropping way into it--and I don't think the difference  between 45MP and 60 is that dramatic. That said, I see absolutely no difference in my images shot with my 60MP camera (Sony) and my M10P that I can attribute solely to the difference in resolution. I think this argument is mostly theoretical and unnecessary. I hope that's useful to you. And, I would not trade in my M10R for an M11 unless there are some very, very compelling reasons that will impact your photography. Sorry for the unsolicited advice.

Edited March 17, 2022 by _Alex_
typo correction

[Ktsa5239]

I couldn’t resist the temptation and placed a deposit on the black M11 😅 now it’s a waiting game! I think I’ll be mostly on the 18MP setting unless I do landscape on tripod. Can you assign the MP mode to a button?

[FlashGordonPhotography]

3 hours ago, Ktsa5239 said:

I couldn’t resist the temptation and placed a deposit on the black M11 😅 now it’s a waiting game! I think I’ll be mostly on the 18MP setting unless I do landscape on tripod. Can you assign the MP mode to a button?

No need. It's available directly from the quick menu. But yes you can if you'd prefer to access it that way. Page 3 of the button options.

Gordon

[Herr Barnack]

It seems to me that the biggest downside to 60mp is storage. 

But then again, I think my two 6TB external drives will likely solve that issue.  If not, I'll buy two more.

Edited May 17, 2022 by Herr Barnack

[tom0511]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Herr Barnack:

It seems to me that the biggest downside to 60mp is storage. 

But then again, I think my two 6TB external drives will likely solve that issue.  If not, I'll buy two more.

or rather shoot 1 good image instead of two medium quality  (I am talking about myself)

[Jared]

On 3/12/2022 at 6:27 PM, Ktsa5239 said:

I’m still on the fence on whether to get the M11 because I only got the M10R for a year. I think I really like the richer colours from the samples I’ve seen but I’m one of those people with bad technique that needs higher shutter speed (1/2f tends to work for me) for M10R to get rid of shake so I’m worried about 60MP.

Some reviewers say using 18, 36MP makes no difference and it’s best to just stay on 60 and down sample later. While some said there’s noise and DR advantage. I think for me I would most likely use it on 36MP for the size of prints I do. But what’s the actual verdict? Are you guys mostly staying on 60MP?or 36? Or 18?? Is there more than space saving benefits in your experience?

thanks!!

 

The lower resolution files do improve dynamic range and SNR by, effectively, lowering the noise floor a touch. However, you can substantially accomplish the same thing in post by down-sampling your resolution. So, space savings and a faster workflow are the only real benefits to the software binning implemented by Leica.

60MP makes camera shake more visible than at lower resolution, but if you are used to the M10R the difference is pretty small. If you were happy with that camera’s results at 40MP you will probably be able to get away with the same settings.

The sensor in the M11 is as good as it gets in terms of quantum efficiency (sensitivity), full well capacity (big factor in dynamic range), and read noise. The M10R was no slouch, though, so expect incremental gains only. 

[Herr Barnack]

3 hours ago, tom0511 said:

or rather shoot 1 good image instead of two medium quality  (I am talking about myself)

I always make more than one image.

If I make only one image, it is inevitable that someone in the image will look either drunk, stoned, half asleep or will be picking their nose - or other body part best left unpicked in the public arena...

[tom0511]

in this care take 3 and delete 2 (and I totally agree with you)

Edited May 17, 2022 by tom0511

[hdmesa]

If you use 36 and 18mp resolutions, add a good dose of sharpening to the DNGs and then sharpen again on export to taste. It's the same effect as what you get when you downsample the 60mp DNGs to the smaller sizes in Photoshop using "Bicubic Sharper" as the reduction method (default). In essence, Photoshop is smart-sharpening the file during the image size reduction process, so using generous sharpening with the 36mp/18mp DNG files keeps them competitive. I have examples posted here on FM Forums.

 

 

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[tom0511]

vor 8 Stunden schrieb hdmesa:

If you use 36 and 18mp resolutions, add a good dose of sharpening to the DNGs and then sharpen again on export to taste. It's the same effect as what you get when you downsample the 60mp DNGs to the smaller sizes in Photoshop using "Bicubic Sharper" as the reduction method (default). In essence, Photoshop is smart-sharpening the file during the image size reduction process, so using generous sharpening with the 36mp/18mp DNG files keeps them competitive. I have examples posted here on FM Forums.

 

 

Interesting,

I wonder how the 18 and 36MP files are "produced" in camera? Is it all a reduction of 60MP ? Or a different way?

I mean would resizing a 36MP file mean that its resized from 60 to 36 in camera, and then from 36 to whatever in post? Which would be 2 resizing processes.

I looked at your post on FM. To which size did you resize the images?

Edited May 18, 2022 by tom0511