Am I going crazy, or does the 35mm Zeiss Distagon have a better rendering than the FLE?

[28framelines]

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1 hour ago, chasdfg said:

I never had the two lenses (ZM 1.4 and Ultron f2) at the same time but IIRC, compared to the ZM 1.4,  the Ultron has swirlier bokeh, the rendering isn't as clean and it is more "characterful". The ZM is crisp. They're both modern optics and are sharp wide open (ZM would probably be sharper particularly if you stopped it down). Before the 35mm APO from Leica and VM came out, I always felt that the best 35mm to combine with a 50APO and 28 Summicron v2 would be the ZM 1.4. because of the look of the images.

You can check out samples of the Ultron f2 here:
https://www.flickr.com/groups/4585520@N20/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/26944379@N07/50392110308/in/pool-4585520@N20/ ->swirly bokeh (not shot by me). The ZM is a bit more controlled but I wouldn't say it is immune as it does suffer from mechanical vignetting as well (correct me if I'm wrong).

One thing which may be a dealbreaker is that the 35 Ultron II focuses to 0.58m and does not have a hard stop at 0.7m. On my M10M it appears I'm able to focus with the rangefinder till the minimum focusing distance, but usually fall back on live view for shots closer than 0.7m.

I sold the ZM because I found it too bulky as my EDC. Now I use the Ultron f2 almost all the time. The FLE looks huge side by side, though it is a stop faster. That said if you like the look of the ZM and want to use it for portraits, I'd just go for the ZM directly. You can use the 28 Elmarit for small lens stuff.

 

Hey thanks for the thoughtful response (with some links)! I think I’m leaning the direction you talked about at the end; I’m leaning a lot more towards the ZM because like you say, the 28 Elmarit for the small lens stuff. I definitely think this is the case for me (I got the Elmarit for it’s size and image quality). 

[28framelines]

7 hours ago, mheine said:

The Distagon is an outstanding glass, it is by far the best lens I have ever owned. The sharpness at f1.4 is amazing and beats my beloved Leica Q or GM / Zeiss lenses for the Sony System I used to own. The bokeh is super smooth - combined with the "3D pop" Zeiss lenses are known for - you get a very unique look. And what's super important: There's absolutely no focus shift at all, even when I adjust my RF for other lenses, the Distagon still focuses on point. This is by the way, next to the Ultron 35mm f2, the only M lens I had in use without any focus shift, even the Summilux FLE has focus shift at some apertures. The close-up rendering is also one of its own - there's just no difference when taking images from near distances - the lens just performs with every aperture at any distances. The flare resistance is also very high, I only had like 5 lens flares since I got the lens (over a year and highly usage).
The only downside is its size & weight which some not like - especially on a Leica M camera. I have to admit that sometimes it's an overkill to take the lens with me for example daily walks, that's why I would get two 35mm (if possible and you like the idea), one for daily carry and the Distagon when you want and need image perfection.
I had the Ultron (highly recommended as a "one lens only" lens) next to the Distagon for some time but sold it because they were too similar (sharp), so, I got myself the Nokton Classic again, to have a whole different - classical - rendering.

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Holy moly the rendering here… I think this is kind of helping solidify in my mind what I like about this lens. In all honesty, for something like portraits, I really don’t care about it’s size, and even with it’s size, I’ve had larger Fujifilm lenses on an X-E4! I also love to hear that there’s 0 focus shift, which is something that I feel a lot of these lenses have. Perhaps if at some point I’m in the market for a second 35, the Ultron or the C-Biogon would be great, but I think I’m sold on this Distagon (even though the price is massive). It’s also great to hear that this lens is very flare resistant.

Something I was thinking about is if I read correctly, there are two Aspherical elements in the lens, which then would explain why perhaps (at least to me, not sure about others) it has a similar feel to it as the Summilux AA.

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[mheine]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb 28framelines:

Holy moly the rendering here… I think this is kind of helping solidify in my mind what I like about this lens. In all honesty, for something like portraits, I really don’t care about it’s size, and even with it’s size, I’ve had larger Fujifilm lenses on an X-E4! I also love to hear that there’s 0 focus shift, which is something that I feel a lot of these lenses have. Perhaps if at some point I’m in the market for a second 35, the Ultron or the C-Biogon would be great, but I think I’m sold on this Distagon (even though the price is massive). It’s also great to hear that this lens is very flare resistant.

Something I was thinking about is if I read correctly, there are two Aspherical elements in the lens, which then would explain why perhaps (at least to me, not sure about others) it has a similar feel to it as the Summilux AA.

The flare resistance is really amazing, I bought mine used for "only" 1.2k with the lens hood (didn't want it but it came with the deal) and didn't use it once. I feel the same about the size, in Leica M world it's a bit bigger (like both the 24mm & 28mm Summilux) but in comparison to other systems, it's not big at all.
As @chasdfgalready mentioned, the Ultron has busy bokeh which some call "character" - almost like the Nokton but without glowing and a tack less sharper outlining. The Distagon is the complete opposite, very smooth, "glassy look". The Distagon is tack sharper than the Ultrons but that's splitting hairs - they both are super sharp at every aperture.
I also like the build quality a lot, this lens feels super solid. The aperture ring has the most beautiful sound - in my opinion - and the focus ring has a smooth, very precise feeling - it feels pretty similar to the Leica Q's manual focus ring. It's not just my "best lens" in rendering terms but also in build quality. 

Here are some reviews I highly recommend to read:
http://gear.vogelius.se/-reviews/zeiss-zm-35-distagon/index.html
https://silaschu.com/blog/zeiss35distagon 
https://www.maxphotoparker.com/2021/05/27/zeiss-zm-distagon-t-35mm-f1-4/

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[otto.f]

16 hours ago, 28framelines said:

On that note, does anyone have any experience with the 35mm Ultron II in terms of rendering and can share some examples? Does it compare at all to the Distagon in terms of rendering (obviously not light gathering potential).
 

Perhaps that would be a better EDC if the rendering is close enough, much cheaper, and much smaller.

I should note that for my purposes, I only shoot on film (Leica MP) and have no interest in buying a digital Leica, so “future-proofing when I make the switch to digital” is not something I care about or have a requirement for.

Post #191, FWIW, because you are a good deal on track for the ZM.

[dkmoore]

The size of the Zeiss lens is a deterrent for me. Same reason I’m not a Noctilux shooter. 
 

The size of the FLE is almost too big but ok so I have kept it. I rarely use my 28 Lux because of size and I think it’s pretty close to the zeiss. 
 

If you don’t mind large lenses on the M and or use the EVF, you can’t go wrong with the Zeiss. Beautiful IQ. 
 

 

[Huss]

On 3/10/2022 at 8:20 PM, 28framelines said:

...I really don’t care about it’s size, and even with it’s size, I’ve had larger Fujifilm lenses on an X-E4!..

The XE4 is an EVF camera, where it does not matter how big the lens is, as you never see it intrude into your composition as you frame your shot.

I have the ZM 35 1.4, as well as the FLE and other 35s.  The ZM is fantastic optically but I only use it on M rangefinder cameras, and the lens really does block/intrude into the view which makes it much less enjoyable to use than smaller lenses.

[robb]

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I use the Zeiss ZM on my SL2 and sl2-s

but since I added the SL 35 summicron the Zeiss has been relegated more to a backup role or if lighter weight was a preference.  ZM is a great lens.  Great focusing.  Great look.

Robb

[patashnik]

Another vote for "not crazy". I own the ASPH and FLE 35mm Summilux. While I prefer the size of the FLE, the Distagon is my favourite lens. But those lens caps need to go.

[Guest]

... got my silver 35mm Distagon ZM f/1.4 today in the mail (from B&H). With a $5.90 alternate lens cap ... thanks for the warning, Zeiss keeps shipping those problematic lens caps, fortunately by now we are prepared to deal with it 🙂

This lens is amazing!!!! I am completely blown away by the image quality. Only reservation are corners esp. wide open, where an APO at f/2 would be a better choice.

For comparison I also have Noctilux 50/0.95, Summilux 21&28, Otus 55, ... This 35 is now officially the cheapest of my favorite lenses, and easily holds his own in this company. I have the RX1R ii as my point and shoot, but not seeing the same magic from that Sonnar f/2 as from this Distagon f/1.4. To quote this review, "Gear has no right to be that good".

Happiness 😍

[gotium]

No, you are not crazy. I had both and used them side-by-aide for a while and then sold the lux.

In terms of optics I think the distagon is the best lens I’ve ever used. 

Edited March 16, 2022 by gotium

[IkarusJohn]

As a matter of interest, how do I code the Zeiss 35/1.4?

[Prosophos]

Another vote for not crazy.

—Peter.

 

 

[28framelines]

I’m fully convinced it’s my next lens. I’ve been having a blast with my Elmarit 28 ASPH in Paris and Florence the past week and a bit, but I have a feeling this will be the lens for 35mm focal length for me as I wish I had the extra light gathering and options for portraits during the evening. So far, portraits (for daytime) have been on the Micro-Nikkor 55mm f3.5 Ai mounted on my FM3a.

Edited March 20, 2022 by 28framelines

[anickpick]

Am 16.3.2022 um 20:08 schrieb IkarusJohn:

As a matter of interest, how do I code the Zeiss 35/1.4?

Due to higher distortion of the Leica 35mm lenses, coding the Zeiss 35 1.4 as any Leica 35mm lens is not recommended.

In my experience, coding it as 28 Elmarit leads to fantastic results.

This is the official recommendation:

"

Thanks for your inquiry.
With the Distagon T* 1,4/35 ZM, we recommend to use one of the manual lens profile settings:
28 f/2 ASPH. 11604
or
28 f/2.8 ASPH. 11606

Please do your own tests to find out the best setting for your applications.
We do not recommend to try any self-coding (6bit coding) on the lens. 

For further details, please do not hesitate to contact us!

With Best regards
Bertram Hönlinger
_______________

Bertram Hönlinger
Customer Care Center
Consumer Products

Carl Zeiss AG

"

Edited March 20, 2022 by anickpick

[IkarusJohn]

I see that Sean Reid coded the lens as a 35 Summilux-M ASPH (FLE).  With that coding, he seemed happy, though he also said he could detect no colour shift which was easily apparent on my monitor.

I think I’ll start with the 28 Summicron - that was referred to elsewhere.

Many thanks
John

[gotium]

2 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I see that Sean Reid coded the lens as a 35 Summilux-M ASPH (FLE).  With that coding, he seemed happy, though he also said he could detect no colour shift which was easily apparent on my monitor.

I think I’ll start with the 28 Summicron - that was referred to elsewhere.

Many thanks
John

I think you only need to code it if you want to know what lens was used. I have not found any need optically.

[Guest]

On 3/16/2022 at 12:08 PM, IkarusJohn said:

As a matter of interest, how do I code the Zeiss 35/1.4?

Lightroom has a matching lens profile specifically for this lens, under Manufacturer Zeiss ZM

[Cobram]

6 hours ago, IkarusJohn said:

I see that Sean Reid coded the lens as a 35 Summilux-M ASPH (FLE).  With that coding, he seemed happy, though he also said he could detect no colour shift which was easily apparent on my monitor.

I think I’ll start with the 28 Summicron - that was referred to elsewhere.

Many thanks
John

Summicron 28 is great! For every situation.