Jump to content

Color Profiles in LR and Presets


B0tt0mline

Recommended Posts

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hi,

Which color profile do you use in LR? On my mobile Ipad version I see a M11 profile, but in the Red Dot (from Leica Store Miami) videos I was told to use the adobe color one. Do not really know which one to take currently.

Torsten Overgaard sells his M11 CMOS correction profile, he promotes it with "Adjusts color balance towards CCD sensor and remove the usual bluish or cold look of CMOS." Did anybody already try it? Does it make sense to buy it?

Thank you,

Alex

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, B0tt0mline said:

Hi,

Which color profile do you use in LR? On my mobile Ipad version I see a M11 profile, but in the Red Dot (from Leica Store Miami) videos I was told to use the adobe color one. Do not really know which one to take currently.

Torsten Overgaard sells his M11 CMOS correction profile, he promotes it with "Adjusts color balance towards CCD sensor and remove the usual bluish or cold look of CMOS." Did anybody already try it? Does it make sense to buy it?

Thank you,

Alex

 

Well, which results do you like best? Use that one. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

The adobe one will be a little more robust at high iso and under incandescent lighting (because it has more code contained within it than the Leica one and because it's been specifically created by adobe to work with adobe products)

FWIW IME profiles and presets work best when you have a specific thing that you wish them to achieve (say you think the colours are not accurate enough or perhaps the opposite - they're flat and too real and not lively enough), so IMHO the best thing to do is to just use the camera for a while, see how often you find yourself making the same colour and/or tone edits again and again in post then look for a product (preset or profile) that offers to do the job for you.

Failing that, you can make your own. Presets are very easy to make and something like Lumariver can be used to really create a profile tuned to your tastes.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, B0tt0mline said:

Hi,

Which color profile do you use in LR? On my mobile Ipad version I see a M11 profile, but in the Red Dot (from Leica Store Miami) videos I was told to use the adobe color one. Do not really know which one to take currently.

Torsten Overgaard sells his M11 CMOS correction profile, he promotes it with "Adjusts color balance towards CCD sensor and remove the usual bluish or cold look of CMOS." Did anybody already try it? Does it make sense to buy it?

Thank you,

Alex

 

I edit my M11 files in Lightroom on the iPad and I find that 99% of the time I prefer the M11 profile over the Adobe. BUT that's just me.

Adam in the post above is 100% correct.

Color is so subjective that you shouldn't buy something from someone that purports to fix a problem that is non existenet

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Adobe Standard is the profile intended for the M11 (and any other camera). Adobe produces profiles for most new cameras, and if you look in the filing system you will see them all there with the camera name. Within LR, the correct profile for your camera (whichever it is) is simply displayed as Adobe Standard.

But as others say, whatever works best. I don't like Adobe Color for my cameras (CL, SL2-S, Sigma fp) and usually use Adobe Standard. Sometimes you have to try different ones for quite a while before you notice the differences. For me Adobe Color is not quite right with skin tones for the SL2-S at least. My import preset is set to Adobe Standard by default (along with a few other tweaks).

Edited by LocalHero1953
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Adobe Standard is the profile intended for the M11 (and any other camera). Adobe produces profiles for most new cameras, and if you look in the filing system you will see them all there with the camera name. Within LR, the correct profile for your camera (whichever it is) is simply displayed as Adobe Standard.

But as others say, whatever works best. I don't like Adobe Color for my cameras (CL, SL2-S, Sigma fp) and usually use Adobe Standard. Sometimes you have to try different ones for quite a while before you notice the differences. For me Adobe Color is not quite right with skin tones for the SL2-S at least. My import preset is set to Adobe Standard by default (along with a few other tweaks).

adobe standard is a .dcp file and is the adobe profile created specifically for the camera, adobe color is a .xmp file file that's a generic (well generic to adobe) colour table that applies a subjective look on top of the adobe standard file and applies to all cameras that have an adobe standard profile

From adobe's pdf (contained within the enhanced profile SDK)

Quote

Unlike DCPs, enhanced profiles only specify color, tonal and other imaging instructions to be applied after device specific data has already been translated to a standard color space. For raw files, enhanced profiles may specify a DCP by name and are designed to work forward from that baseline. For example, a single enhanced profile file could be used to provide a “Portrait” or other type of style to any photo from any camera for which there is already an Adobe Standard DCP .

(my bold emphasis)

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, SrMi said:

FWIW, Adobe is still not officially supporting M11. Once their update with M11 support is out, I could imagine that some profiles may change.

I just wrote a long reply to this and somehow lost it!!! (lucky you!!!)

truncated version:

Unlikely, (but not impossible)

Adobe seldom tries again at making a dcp file and they already have this for the M11.

In LR/ACR the adjustments are camera specific, eg -50 on the highlight slider might recover 1 stop of highlight data on camera A but only 0.7 (or even 1.2) stops on camera B, even though both have "-50" on the highlight slider. This is true also with the sliders, like NR, sharpening.

adobe doesn't control this via the DCP file, but via tags and info in the RAW file.

My hunch would be that adobe needs to figure out this relationship between M11 raw data and m11 raw data and the lens profiles, and both sets of data against the M11 variable resolution modes*, after which the sharpening/NR/lens profiles will work consistently across the res modes. I don't think they'll be changing the camera colours...

But just a hunch.

(*my hunch here is that these are causing adobe a headache whereby previously they might have code that amounts too if ISO=x then apply y amount of NR but now they need code that amounts to if ISO=x  and resolution mode = a then apply y amount of NR , but if ISO=x  and resolution mode = b then apply y1 amount of NR and so on. Same with the lens profiles)

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

I am not shure that there is a .DCP Camera Profile for the M11. I can find 1036 different Adobe Standard and Camera Default files and hundreds of Camera specific .DCP files on my iMac, but nothing for the M11. For example for the M10 there are 4 .DCP files (M10, M10-D, M10-P and M10-R).

So maybe there is nothing specific for the M11 and the builtin Profile is used?

Link to post
Share on other sites

On 4/25/2022 at 4:47 PM, TeeGee said:

I am not shure that there is a .DCP Camera Profile for the M11. I can find 1036 different Adobe Standard and Camera Default files and hundreds of Camera specific .DCP files on my iMac, but nothing for the M11. For example for the M10 there are 4 .DCP files (M10, M10-D, M10-P and M10-R).

So maybe there is nothing specific for the M11 and the builtin Profile is used?

If when you import a DNG file from the M11 the profile options contain ‘adobe color’ and or ‘adobe standard’ (which they do) then there is 100% no shadow of a doubt that a .dcp file for the M11 exists

That said I can’t find it on my mac either!

If anyone needs it (older version of LR/ACR, use in a different RAW app, whatever) I extracted it from DNG converter and posted it here

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

When I was still using Lightroom 6, I couldn't import RAW files from the Sony A7III, for example, but I could import DNG files from the Leica Q2.
Since the DNG format comes from Adobe, I could imagine Lightroom using some kind of default "Adobe Standard" if there is no camera-specific DCP file.

What I also don't understand is why there are over 1000 Adobe Standard Profiles for all cameras in Camera Raw, only with the M11 Adobe does it differently? That doesn't seem logical to me.

Link to post
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

When I was still using Lightroom 6, I couldn't import RAW files from the Sony A7III, for example, but I could import DNG files from the Leica Q2.

That’s because Sony et el use a proprietary RAW format and DNG is open, part of the DNG spec is too embed a camera profile inside the DNG. You would not have had a Q2 adobe standard profile with LR6, only the embedded DNG profile. (Which came from Leica)

28 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

Since the DNG format comes from Adobe, I could imagine Lightroom using some kind of default "Adobe Standard" if there is no camera-specific DCP file.

You imagine incorrectly I’m afraid. The default in lieu of ‘adobe standard’ is whatever the camera manufacturer embeds into the DNG. Adobe standard is not contained within the DNG itself.

A big part of what a DCP file does is map from the XYZ colour space for standard illuminant values to un-white-balanced camera RAW data (then from there to the D50 colour space). So unless all cameras have RAW with exactly the same un-white-balanced camera RAW data then there can’t be a standard DCP file

(FYI cameras from the same brand don’t have the same un-white-balanced camera RAW data let alone all the camera brands, even cameras that share the same base chip, eg NEX5, X-Pro1, Pentax K5, don’t have the same un-white-balanced camera RAW data)

28 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

What I also don't understand is why there are over 1000 Adobe Standard Profiles for all cameras in Camera Raw, only with the M11 Adobe does it differently? That doesn't seem logical to me.

Me neither. But maybe adobe is changing how that works? Maybe adobe are sick and tired of people like me, helping themselves to their DCP files and sharing them on the internet 😇. Maybe it’s a bug, maybe it’s resolved in a future release? Maybe it’s because adobe had a profile for the M11 way before it was officially launched (that part’s not a maybe - they did) and maybe it was contractual/courteous of them not to kinda advertise Leica’s impending release and they haven’t got around to ‘unhiding it’ yet.

At the end of the day:

The beta M11 testers all reported having the adobe profile arrive in LR/ACR before the launch date of the M11 (ie it came in an standard adobe update, they didn’t get it specially).

Adobe standard exists as an option for M11 files within LR/ACR

Adobe release notes list the M11 as supported (aka exists a dcp file for it)

I have provided the genuine article adobe standard dcp file to the forum. (See link in my above post)

I think we can say beyond any shadow of a doubt whatsoever that the adobe standard dcp file exists and just like all the other adobe standard profiles are specific to their respective cameras, the M11 one is tailor made for the M11. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I came across the same question while playing with the M11 files.

Generally, Adobe Standard/Color seems to work fine in most cases.

Also can recommend Kodak Portra 160 II from RNI All Films 5.
Overall RNI film profiles look quite natural and "analog" with the most of the Leica DNGs.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...