Anyone done M10M comparisons vs M11?

[Dward]

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2 hours ago, augustwest100 said:

I feel like at full resolution the difference is even more apparent. I have a few at 1600 and 3200 if you are interested let me know.

No harm posting but the above answers the OP’s question. Curious on lens/ f stop for the pictures above?

Dave

[augustwest100]

10 minutes ago, Dward said:

No harm posting but the above answers the OP’s question. Curious on lens/ f stop for the pictures above?

Dave

I believe all shots taken with the new-ish Voigtlander 75mm 1.5 shot at 5.6. 

 

Edited May 13, 2022 by augustwest100

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[augustwest100]

I ran a few more real world comparisons between M11 desaturated and M10M. I cropped into a small portion of the image and printed 8x10 and still see very little difference.  I guess  I will have to go much bigger!

Edited May 15, 2022 by augustwest100

[augustwest100]

I don't know why, but I decided to compare another image from M11 and M10M with a severe crop, both handheld, so I suppose my focus will not have been precise. Here they are, first, the M10M full image, and second the M11 desaturated full image:

 

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[augustwest100]

here is a severe crop of from the M10M and then the M11:

 

 

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[Dward]

11 minutes ago, augustwest100 said:

here is a severe crop of from the M10M and then the M11:

 

 

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Might be the focus / composition but the M11 looks a bit crisper in this series.

[augustwest100]

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now i can't stop myself, so I've got one more! This is a severe crop of M10 and M11 at ISO 6400, the subject matter "House of Color" only adds to the irony! M10 first...

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[augustwest100]

M11 6400

 

 

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[PeterGA]

@augustwest100 - so what do you conclude ? 😎

 

[sergiomarried]

Guys, believe me, I’ve been there before: wondering how the special monochrome sensor would look any different from a color conversion to B&W… It’s a difficult mind game to follow, a highly deceiving in my experience. For anyone who’s trying to figure this out let me please throw my 2 cents here: It’s not only about the look result you’d get out of the monochrome sensor images, there’s also a lot to regard in terms of the following points:

• Monochrome raw files are unique, never seen anything similar before. I’m not saying they’re better, but certainly different to color ones. The tonality handling of the files, the ability to push them to infinity, the hidden dynamic range…it’s all about the luminosity value game, no color channels involved, no temperature stories… all down to the essentials.
• The low light performance of these monochrome sensors is simply unpaired in the photographic industry. Sometimes I feel that the more I push ISO the more gorgeous files I get… the grain, the organic texture… small details that perhaps only absolutely freaks of B&W timeless photography can appreciate but it’s real.
• There’s something about how unique color filters render the overall tonality that you can’t get close with other software/alternative solutions. It’s a bit of pain as well having to deal with filters, yeah, but you also get gorgeous results, I usually have an orange filter attached to my 35mm most of the time.
• Last but not least: the forced mindset change of having only the possibility of capturing B&W is also present and has an impact in the way you look at any given scene. You start looking for tonal luminosity contrast, shadow-lights, shapes, textures… they move into other thinking dimension. Of course, in reality you don’t always have the time to go through this mental list of things, but they become more and more natural instinct to you…

These are my main observations and like with any tool: you need to use it at the end of the day yourself to make your best opinion. 

Here’s a recent work piece I put together while documenting Ravi Coltrane’s Quartet at NYC Birdland Jazz venue. Can’t think of any better example of a situation where Leica Monochrome (M10M) would be better suited for. 

Birdland Jazz - Ravi Coltrane & Quartet

Cheers

Sergio

[augustwest100]

On 6/13/2022 at 9:22 PM, PeterGA said:

@augustwest100 - so what do you conclude ? 😎

 

Wow, now that’s the question isn’t it? I would give the following non-scientific thoughts: 

1. The M11 converted to monochrome and then printed at 11x17 or thereabouts, can hold its own against the M10M, especially in scenes with ample light. When printing color images, the M11 wins, LOL.

2. When looked at alone, the M11 files seem really good up to ISO 6400 and maybe even ISO 8000 before showing some weakness. 

3. When compared with the M10M, the M11 files converted to black and white at ISO 6400 suddenly don’t seem as good as they did before! The difference gets even more dramatic as you go further up in ISO.

4. The shooting experience comes down to mindset. When I shoot the M11 with the image set to monochrome, it works pretty well, and you get to play with the color channels in post. But when I see my color images, most of them are a little boring, truth be told. I’ve always preferred black and white, but I’m having difficulty fully committing. When I shoot the M10M, I know there will be no color, so it never factors into the process. The images blow me away, especially in low light. 

are you a night shooter? —->M10M all the way!

are you a day shooter that likes to shoot wide open without ND filters? —>M11

do you like to shoot a little color, while torturing yourself at the same time? Go M11 and start wishing for an M11M!

[augustwest100]

On 6/15/2022 at 4:39 AM, sergiomarried said:

Guys, believe me, I’ve been there before: wondering how the special monochrome sensor would look any different from a color conversion to B&W… It’s a difficult mind game to follow, a highly deceiving in my experience. For anyone who’s trying to figure this out let me please throw my 2 cents here: It’s not only about the look result you’d get out of the monochrome sensor images, there’s also a lot to regard in terms of the following points:

• Monochrome raw files are unique, never seen anything similar before. I’m not saying they’re better, but certainly different to color ones. The tonality handling of the files, the ability to push them to infinity, the hidden dynamic range…it’s all about the luminosity value game, no color channels involved, no temperature stories… all down to the essentials.
• The low light performance of these monochrome sensors is simply unpaired in the photographic industry. Sometimes I feel that the more I push ISO the more gorgeous files I get… the grain, the organic texture… small details that perhaps only absolutely freaks of B&W timeless photography can appreciate but it’s real.
• There’s something about how unique color filters render the overall tonality that you can’t get close with other software/alternative solutions. It’s a bit of pain as well having to deal with filters, yeah, but you also get gorgeous results, I usually have an orange filter attached to my 35mm most of the time.
• Last but not least: the forced mindset change of having only the possibility of capturing B&W is also present and has an impact in the way you look at any given scene. You start looking for tonal luminosity contrast, shadow-lights, shapes, textures… they move into other thinking dimension. Of course, in reality you don’t always have the time to go through this mental list of things, but they become more and more natural instinct to you…

These are my main observations and like with any tool: you need to use it at the end of the day yourself to make your best opinion. 

Here’s a recent work piece I put together while documenting Ravi Coltrane’s Quartet at NYC Birdland Jazz venue. Can’t think of any better example of a situation where Leica Monochrome (M10M) would be better suited for. 

Birdland Jazz - Ravi Coltrane & Quartet

Cheers

Sergio

Very nice atmosphere in those images

[ECliffordSmith]

On 6/15/2022 at 10:39 AM, sergiomarried said:

Guys, believe me, I’ve been there before: wondering how the special monochrome sensor would look any different from a color conversion to B&W… It’s a difficult mind game to follow, a highly deceiving in my experience. For anyone who’s trying to figure this out let me please throw my 2 cents here: It’s not only about the look result you’d get out of the monochrome sensor images, there’s also a lot to regard in terms of the following points:

• Monochrome raw files are unique, never seen anything similar before. I’m not saying they’re better, but certainly different to color ones. The tonality handling of the files, the ability to push them to infinity, the hidden dynamic range…it’s all about the luminosity value game, no color channels involved, no temperature stories… all down to the essentials.
• The low light performance of these monochrome sensors is simply unpaired in the photographic industry. Sometimes I feel that the more I push ISO the more gorgeous files I get… the grain, the organic texture… small details that perhaps only absolutely freaks of B&W timeless photography can appreciate but it’s real.
• There’s something about how unique color filters render the overall tonality that you can’t get close with other software/alternative solutions. It’s a bit of pain as well having to deal with filters, yeah, but you also get gorgeous results, I usually have an orange filter attached to my 35mm most of the time.
• Last but not least: the forced mindset change of having only the possibility of capturing B&W is also present and has an impact in the way you look at any given scene. You start looking for tonal luminosity contrast, shadow-lights, shapes, textures… they move into other thinking dimension. Of course, in reality you don’t always have the time to go through this mental list of things, but they become more and more natural instinct to you…

These are my main observations and like with any tool: you need to use it at the end of the day yourself to make your best opinion. 

Here’s a recent work piece I put together while documenting Ravi Coltrane’s Quartet at NYC Birdland Jazz venue. Can’t think of any better example of a situation where Leica Monochrome (M10M) would be better suited for. 

Birdland Jazz - Ravi Coltrane & Quartet

Cheers

Sergio

Hi Sergio,

A stunning set at Birdland, thanks for sharing it.

[sergiomarried]

9 hours ago, ECliffordSmith said:

Hi Sergio,

A stunning set at Birdland, thanks for sharing it.

Thanks for the feedback, it was such an honor to be the photographer that night 🙏

[eyeheartny]

On 6/15/2022 at 1:39 AM, sergiomarried said:

Guys, believe me, I’ve been there before: wondering how the special monochrome sensor would look any different from a color conversion to B&W… It’s a difficult mind game to follow, a highly deceiving in my experience. For anyone who’s trying to figure this out let me please throw my 2 cents here: It’s not only about the look result you’d get out of the monochrome sensor images, there’s also a lot to regard in terms of the following points:

• Monochrome raw files are unique, never seen anything similar before. I’m not saying they’re better, but certainly different to color ones. The tonality handling of the files, the ability to push them to infinity, the hidden dynamic range…it’s all about the luminosity value game, no color channels involved, no temperature stories… all down to the essentials.
• The low light performance of these monochrome sensors is simply unpaired in the photographic industry. Sometimes I feel that the more I push ISO the more gorgeous files I get… the grain, the organic texture… small details that perhaps only absolutely freaks of B&W timeless photography can appreciate but it’s real.
• There’s something about how unique color filters render the overall tonality that you can’t get close with other software/alternative solutions. It’s a bit of pain as well having to deal with filters, yeah, but you also get gorgeous results, I usually have an orange filter attached to my 35mm most of the time.
• Last but not least: the forced mindset change of having only the possibility of capturing B&W is also present and has an impact in the way you look at any given scene. You start looking for tonal luminosity contrast, shadow-lights, shapes, textures… they move into other thinking dimension. Of course, in reality you don’t always have the time to go through this mental list of things, but they become more and more natural instinct to you…

These are my main observations and like with any tool: you need to use it at the end of the day yourself to make your best opinion. 

Here’s a recent work piece I put together while documenting Ravi Coltrane’s Quartet at NYC Birdland Jazz venue. Can’t think of any better example of a situation where Leica Monochrome (M10M) would be better suited for. 

Birdland Jazz - Ravi Coltrane & Quartet

Cheers

Sergio

 

Amazing images! What lens did you shoot this event with? 

[sergiomarried]

On 7/27/2022 at 9:00 PM, eyeheartny said:

 

Amazing images! What lens did you shoot this event with? 

Thank you for the compliment, glad they made you feel a bit of the magic that we witnessed that night. I’m very minimalistic on my tools: 50 Lux Asph and 35 f1.4 v2 Nokton 😉

[Chaemono]

Am 13.5.2022 um 18:03 schrieb augustwest100:

Ok, then! I will try my best here. Please note the shots are handheld, and I believe there is some in camera noise reduction applied. I will post several photos, starting with the M11 color at the large DNG size. Each shot is 6400 ISO.

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Amazing colors for ISO 6400

[soccerrick10]

The area I haven’t seen a converted image being equal is when the light levels drop and lurking in the shadows. 
 

I do agree, in higher light levels, it’s getting closer and closer to being “equal”.  Perhaps Leica won’t even make an M11M?  But, until they do and as long as my photography takes me into the shadows, I can’t see me replacing the M10M.

[Stevejack]

Owning both, the M11 has advantages especially if you use the Visoflex with live view being more responsive over-all.

I still prefer the M10M for monochrome, but the monochrom sensor isn't what makes the shot so I am happy using either camera.

If I could only keep one digital Leica, I would keep the M10M.... I just prefer the monochrom sensor and black and white is 90% of what I shoot. But I also have other cameras for colour work so your situation may be different.

I would say that the M11 has creature comforts which are nice to have in an M body. If I had no other digital camera, I would keep the M11 (because when you need colour, you need colour). I could very easily live with either. 

My daily carry is a film camera at the moment, so I'm used to having to shoot with whatever colour / black + white stock I have loaded. I make different shooting decisions depending what stock is loaded so it's easy to apply the same mentality to digital. There's no wrong answer really. 

 

 

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