Leica iiick?

[Giuliobigazzi]

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I have this peculiar iiic with a rechromed and hand engraved top. All looked suspect so I started taking the topplate off to compare the serial inside when I found lots of tiny ball bearings under the rewind knob so I stopped. Is this standard for a wartime iiic or could it be a iiick in disguise? What serials are the first iiick’s?
 

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[luigi bertolotti]

Wow... a camera that worths a complete inspection... by sight it has a pair of distinguishing features of its s/n : the slow speeds lock and the shutter button with (I think) the double thread: the presence of ball bearings points directly to the IIIcK, as you say... is reported that not all of them were marked as such.... and its top has been clearly rewritten...  I suppose there isn't the famous "K" on the shutter's curtain, but would be interesting to inspect the shutter mechanism, which also could be ball-beared.  Btw, I have a IIIc of similar age (383.895) but it's absolutely "civilian" with no bearings.

Edited February 23, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

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[Giuliobigazzi]

Well, it hasn’t.. but there is some black paint on curtain no2, visible when cocked

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Edited February 23, 2022 by Giuliobigazzi
Addition

[luigi bertolotti]

One hipotesis (silly) : a former IIIcK where someone rougly cancelled the K on the curtain and the K after the s/n... silly action considered that IIIcK are valued more... a stolen IIIcK ? 🙄

[jerzy]

indeed, as Luigi wrote - needs further inspection. The first caneras with bearings were Reporter , series of 130 samples and it was Dec1941/January 1942 (information taken from Vidom Spezial). First short series of IIIc with bearings was 387101-387160, it is possible that K was not stamped yet and not engraved. Starting with 388926 all cameras were produced as K and factory notice says that they wre marked with K. 
as fopr engraving - very unusual, bugt I can reme,ber havin seen alreday this type of font, especially "3". Was in in Lager? in Hasbroek?
And to the other features mentioned by Luigi: double threaded ring was introduced with 374501 and lock at 30 on slow speed dial with 381000 (however other sources say it was with 380901 - in any case very close to this camera.
Btw - opening curtain (shown) is completly dead, partially there is no rubber at all, just fabric.
Do you want me to inspect the camera (and repair on this occasion)? 🙂

Edited February 23, 2022 by jerzy

[Giuliobigazzi]

I have managed to open the camera! So many ball bearings..ok sooo the true serial of this iiic is 387147. 

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[romualdo]

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why the variation in serial #s?

Actual serial # is 387147 whilst top plate engraving # is 380852 (very different style/font).

"First short series of IIIc with bearings was 387101-387160" - it fits nicely into this first series sequence

[Anbaric]

Was there ever a legitimate reason for such a mismatch? Might someone have wanted to disguise (say) military engravings and an identifiable serial number at a time when these would have made the camera problematic rather than collectible?

[alan mcfall]

I would support what Jerzy has said, these were certainly the early days of the "K" cameras. Reportedly this first IIIc "bearing" lot, 387101-387150 was shipped to Berlin on 2/18/42 and on 2/27/42. I have earlier cameras such as 387040 and have seen 387024 and 065, and 069   all without the K on the top plate. Then starting with this "K" lot we have seen 387103 and 106, 119 and 150 all with the K. I thus think 387147( in the first post) likely had the K on the top plate originally. Between 387151 and 387160 there are cameras with dual delivery, likely to the Armee in 1945, noted are 387151, and 157 and they also have asterisk after the K and have second delivery data in the records. Even without the original top plate, I view 387147 as an historical important  early K camera. Cameras 387106,119 and 150 all had the Luftwaffen Eigentum stamp on the top plate,  if 147 had it also, that may be a reason it was replaced by someone with a different or maladjusted engraving machine.

Edited February 24, 2022 by alan mcfall

[PG Black nickel]

Hi
Jerzy is right, the button on slow speeds appeared before the #381000 is checked, I have a IIIC #380908 with this button ( see pictures).

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[jed]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:05 AM, alan mcfall said:

I would support what Jerzy has said, these were certainly the early days of the "K" cameras. Reportedly this first IIIc "bearing" lot, 387101-387150 was shipped to Berlin on 2/18/42 and on 2/27/42. I have earlier cameras such as 387040 and have seen 387024 and 065, and 069   all without the K on the top plate. Then starting with this "K" lot we have seen 387103 and 106, 119 and 150 all with the K. I thus think 387147( in the first post) likely had the K on the top plate originally. Between 387151 and 387160 there are cameras with dual delivery, likely to the Armee in 1945, noted are 387151, and 157 and they also have asterisk after the K and have second delivery data in the records. Even without the original top plate, I view 387147 as an historical important  early K camera. Cameras 387106,119 and 150 all had the Luftwaffen Eigentum stamp on the top plate,  if 147 had it also, that may be a reason it was replaced by someone with a different or maladjusted engraving machine.

Hello Alan,

Thanks. I own 387156K camera. According to Jim Lager it was delivered to  Berlin on 5.3.42 on shipment 29491.

 

Jean

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[Giuliobigazzi]

Just found this in the montage book.. can anyone decipher the part underlined in red?

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[sabears]

28 minutes ago, Giuliobigazzi said:

Just found this in the montage book.. can anyone decipher the part underlined in red?

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tested to -45C. Interesting even the fact that they wrote "fuer Heeres", I think all those 200 cameras were for the Wehrmacht...

[Giuliobigazzi]

Ah I couldn’t work out fuer heeres… Thanks for this! yes I believe these were all marked luftwaffen eigentum. Lager states the first 50 delivered were in chrome

[UliWer]

vor 18 Minuten schrieb sabears:

Interesting even the fact that they wrote "fuer Heeres"

The text says "...für Heereslieferung", as there is an hyphenation between the two words "Heeres-" and "-lieferung". It means delivery to the army and even if "Heer" was a distinct part of the "Wehrmacht" the writer may have used "Heer" as a synonym of "Wehrmacht". 

[UliWer]

vor 57 Minuten schrieb Giuliobigazzi:

can anyone decipher the part underlined in red?

It says "geprüft bis -45° im Eisschrank" - "tested until minus 45° in the refrigerator".