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Now that you have your M11, What are the Pros & Cons?


Max EPR

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Pros:  Incredibly sharp and beautiful photos. Great color. Much improved battery life and I like the new battery format, similar to the Q2/SL2.  Lighter weight ( I have the black M11) and the external power/data connection. New menu and sharp & bright display, Electronic shutter, built in 64gb memory, faster processor,  SD UHS-II V90 memory capability, new function buttons

Cons: Needs Highlight weighted metering like SL2 (that would be fantastic)

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I switched from the M10R to the M11 (black). No regrets. 

I'm not going to criticise the features that were left out, but as for what they gave us;

I wish the Visoflex was better... for the price being charged, it's still a couple of generations behind. 

Sensor, ISO performance, the rangefinder... no complains regarding the performance of the camera as a whole, battery life is great.

The rear wheel is a button as well as a dial now, and it feels different to the M10R.. perhaps a little less tactile and mechanical feeling... Sort of reminds me of how the aperture ring on some of Leica's newer lenses are less 'clicky' than others. Not a problem, just an observation. 

The menu system is different, I prefer the old menus probably just because I'm used to them, again it's not really a problem just an observation - I rarely need to go into the menu anyway.

The camera still gets warm when using the visoflex and/or live view. I'm in a hot environment so maybe that bugs me more than it would others, and it wouldn't bug me at all if I didn't have wide lenses as I would just be using the rangefinder all the time.

Other than that it's all good - feels close enough to every other M camera that it feels like I'm using an M camera still 👍

 

 

 

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PROS

  • ISO 64: allowing me to shoot a summilux wide open at 1/4000; by far my favorite upgrade and game changer into how I shoot with my lenses
  • DR & edit flexibility: So much info on the shadows and highlights, more than any other Leica camera
  • New black finish: not only do I love the lighter weight, but I actually prefer this finish to black chrome. I find my vintage chrome lenses go really well with this body
  • USB-C & Internal memory: No more SD Card dongles (or not even SDs at all, I can just use the internal memory). One USB-C cable is all I need.
  • Organic files: Since the M9 that I had not enjoyed a digital leica output because the files always looked too ‘plasticky’. M11 is the first digital that I feel no need to use presets to get an image I enjoy (background: I shoot and enjoy film not only for the process of shooting film but also for the colors & organic rendering it gives you) 
  • Just like every M Leica that came before it: despite some of the changes, using the M11 is still like any other M, and that’s how it should always remain
  • Triple resolution sensor: Giving you the choice to shoot at the resolution that makes sense for you.
  • Fn buttons you can assign: again, choice to the user 

CONS

  • Buggy: Not a major deal breaker but Leica needs to keep those firmware updates coming and fast
  • More CA: I have yet to test this further but my lenses exhibit more CA in the M11 than in any other cameras (for example, the Rigid summicron never showed CA in my other cameras but it does on the M11; the noctilux f1.2 and Elcan 50 also show extreme CA). Not sure why this is, is it because of the higher resolution or the new type of sensor?!
  • 60MP: Not a major dealbreaker as you can lower it (as mentioned above), but Leica could have focused on a 40MP sensor while working on improved ISO, rather than increasing the MP count
  • Low Light: No major improvements in low light VS its predecessor (does the same, just with a higher pixel count). Not that it’s bad, but nothing revolutionary here. 
  • E-shutter: In its current iteration I turn this to off, because you can’t shoot moving subjects due to rolling shutter (most of what I shoot). Not a big deal though since the mechanical shutter and combined ISO allow me to shoot at all apertures under bright light. 
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Pro

  • ISO 64 & electronic shutter : allowing Noctilux & Summilux wide open even in sunny conditions
  • Weight : black version is noticeably lighter and more pleasant in use with small M lenses
  • Visoflex 2.0 major upgrade and makes me wonder why I should keep my SL2 for my longer R lenses.  IBIS might be the only reason but I will need more time to find out.

Cons

  • 60 MP don’t need the extra resolution and 1/15s on an M9 that produced sharp images seems a long gone history.
  • More CA like @shirubadanieru already mentioned above I also see more CA especially with older lenses like on the 75 Lux and 24 Elmarit. 
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PROS

ISO 64: Allows Summilux use in bright sunlight. Its such as nice change.

USB-C & Battery Life: No need for a dedicated battery charger. Battery Life is so much better than the 10-R.

Dial+Button Fn: love it.

CONS

E-shutter: Not usable in current form due to rolling shutter.

FW: Highlight Priority+ Perspective control would be very welcome additions. 

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Pros:

60MP. I print big. Plus variable resolution. Use it all the time. It's like having three cameras in one.

Weight savings on the black body with increased battery life.

Increased battery life and USBC charging without a bigger camera.

Optional LENR and long exposures.

Extra function buttons and that they're programable.

The M experience hasn't been diluted with the new features.

 

 

Cons:

Still waiting for my EVF. Improved LV shooting was one major reson for the upgrade and I'm limited until it arrives. OTOH I have discovered I like it as an RF more than previous M's.

Baseplate: I love the new battery and USBC charging but I MUCH preferred my RRS plate from the M10/M/R over the new Leica grip.

Location of the tripod screw is awful.

Leica can't seem to learn that buttons should be on the right side of the LCD on mirrorless cameras.

Removal of the auto horizon function.

 

Wishlist:

A brass black paint version like the M10R BP. I'll give up the weight savings and give Leica more of my monies for this.

Gordon

 

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4 hours ago, FlashGordonPhotography said:

Cons:

...Removal of the auto horizon function.

Wishlist:

A brass black paint version like the M10R BP. I'll give up the weight savings and give Leica more of my monies for this.

Gordon

 

See post #2 in this thread: 

 

Edited by Herr Barnack
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1 hour ago, SrMi said:

I thought Gordon meant the Perspective Control which allows to automatically level the image in Adobe software. It is missing in M11.

Oh, I thought he was referring to the spirit level.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (on the forum, I think) that perspective control would be added with a firmware update.

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Pros:

usb-C port;

Better wifi, easy to connect;

Battery life;

Better color?

Better high iso than m10r;

Better LCD.

Cons:

Crunk sound when on/wake up;

Longer wake up time;

Shutter sound not as clear as m10r sound.

Lots of bugs in the firmware;

Downgraded production quality compared to m10r (rear wheel & direction keys feel cheaper);

...

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Herr Barnack said:

Oh, I thought he was referring to the spirit level.

I seem to remember reading somewhere (on the forum, I think) that perspective control would be added with a firmware update.

Appologies. I meant perspective control but wrote very poorly. The confusion is obvious reading it back.

Gordon

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I have an M10M and  now an M11.

I just went out shooting with a plan for B&W and a small 28 Summaron with a 90 macro-elmar in my pocket.

Which camera did I choose?  The M11 with plan to convert.

I knew I wouldn't need a back up battery, The black body with small lens is a nicer weight, and the metering is better.

So: Battery life, weighted, metering. Oh, and the resolution allows the M11 to come close to the files of an M10M.

I got the EVF but have yet to use it in the wild.

Oh, I'll keep the M10M until the M11M comes out.

 

 

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pros:

  • Metering correct 99% of the time
  • Lighter
  • Battery life
  • No base plate
  • USB C charging

cons:

  • Single drive mode is slower if you want to shoot several shots quickly
  • wireless remote in FOTOS has a slow frame rate

 

I haven't used it enough to comment on image quality, but so far I like it more than the m10r (which was already significantly nicer than the m10).

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I can't help wondering how Steven is doing with his M11, or maybe he's got his hands on a pre-production M12?

I miss his "voice" here. Often amusing, entertaining and yes, informative, and then at times gloriously way off the mark, ( in my opinion )..........But his enthusiasm for the M's, film and digital, was truly addictive and for me his posts are missed here.

I hope he's still visiting albeit without the secret handshake membership.

A "pardon" maybe?......On both sides?

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While I love all the technological advances M11 put on the table (most notably internal memory, great sensor (especially on high iso), battery life and usb-c support (I don't have to worry about chargers when traveling) but the working RF set's apart from the M10.

I've had 5 M10's and 4 of them were out of calibration out of the box. All 5 M10's needed regular RF calibration - after multiple calibration and RF unit replacement I gave up.

My both M11's had perfect RF, while it's only month of use, but they haven't started to drift.

I noticed that RF arm is slightly firmer on M11 than on M10's, I hope Leica has done reliability improvements on RF mechanism and on electronics which was another pitfall on M10 series.

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29 minutes ago, oka said:

While I love all the technological advances M11 put on the table (most notably internal memory, great sensor (especially on high iso), battery life and usb-c support (I don't have to worry about chargers when traveling) but the working RF set's apart from the M10.

I've had 5 M10's and 4 of them were out of calibration out of the box. All 5 M10's needed regular RF calibration - after multiple calibration and RF unit replacement I gave up.

My both M11's had perfect RF, while it's only month of use, but they haven't started to drift.

I noticed that RF arm is slightly firmer on M11 than on M10's, I hope Leica has done reliability improvements on RF mechanism and on electronics which was another pitfall on M10 series.

Ironic given that the M11 seems to be moving away from RF reliance.  That said, I’ve had no such issues with any of my M10 series cameras.. M10, M10-R or M10 Monochrom.  Past discussions also have not drummed up many users with bad experiences.  Maybe bad luck; maybe user based (careful tripod based testing required; also to rule out lens issues)…


Jeff

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5 hours ago, Jeff S said:

Ironic given that the M11 seems to be moving away from RF reliance.  That said, I’ve had no such issues with any of my M10 series cameras.. M10, M10-R or M10 Monochrom.  Past discussions also have not drummed up many users with bad experiences.  Maybe bad luck; maybe user based (careful tripod based testing required; also to rule out lens issues)…

Yes RF depends on used lenses. If you're not using Summilux or Noctilux lenses, small drift is not noticeable.

Local dealer has noted that the service / warranty issues on Leica are many times higher than on Canon/Sony/Nikon cameras - personally I believe it's not a coincidence with the experience I have witnessed.

I had Canon system for a around 10 years, within the first year with Leica, bodies and lenses needed more service than I had experienced with Canon on 10 years. RF drift, sensor replacement, RF replacement, motherboard replacement, lens calibration, lens assembly, lens coating error etc.

BUT

SL system has been robust, I've had zero issues with the SL bodies and lenses (except on 24-90 which I bought used, which was "loose" - which seems to be quite common issue).

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26 minutes ago, oka said:


I had Canon system for a around 10 years, within the first year with Leica, bodies and lenses needed more service than I had experienced with Canon on 10 years. RF drift, sensor replacement, RF replacement, motherboard replacement, lens calibration, lens assembly, lens coating error etc.

 

Different strokes.  I've been using M bodies since the 80's and have had to deal with US Leica Service only a few times for minor issues.  The only unsatisfactory result was failure to repair the sticky focus action on my 50 Summilux M ASPH.  But DAG took care of it quickly and inexpensively.  

Jeff

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