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Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO vs Leica 50mm f/2 APO


jffielde
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1 hour ago, Goposer said:

 

 

 

Not trying to be too pedantic, but the Leica lens there is not the 50mm APO, I don't think, but the standard Leica 50mm Summicron, which I believe is smaller than the APO.

 

As for the price difference, I personally agree with Goposer, in that there is not a 7000 dollar difference in performance, and I do think that is objective unless you just believe that price is wholly meaningless. That does not mean, however, that there is no reason to buy the Leica lens for anyone. Even if that is just "I like shooting Leica cameras with Leica lenses". People spend money all the time for things which are not particularly practical. The main difference here is that Leica is a luxury goods company in a high labor cost country that is part owned by private equity that is positioning to charge as much as humanly possible. Their prices have gone up a way higher rate than inflation, if you compare the prices of items they have made over the last 30 or 40 years. There are other threads on this. Meanwhile, Voigtlander is a company that is geared very heavily towards enthusiasts, and is marketed towards amateurs (even if they are used by pros) who are looking for high quality, low cost mechanical lenses. They are made in a lower cost labor country and in higher volumes than Leica lenses. Their market positions and characteristics are totally different, even if the products wind up in the same spot on a camera.

Personally, I think it is amazing and wonderful that the performance that you can get out of the best Leica lenses are now available to a broader set of users. I also think it is totally fair to point out that different places can make a huge difference in what kind of lenses are practical. As Olaf_ZG mentioned, the cost of getting his roof repaired in Croatia is less than the cost of the Leica lens. Unfortunately that was definitely not the case for me here in Iceland...

 

Edited by Stuart Richardson
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I prefer small lenses generally so i like much my tiny CV lenses (15/4.5, 21/3.5, 21/4, 28/2, 35/2) but i'm less interested in more bulky lenses like CV 50/2 apo. The Leica 50/2 apo has no competitor at its optical level from this viewpoint. Here compared to Leica 50/2 v5 and 50/1.4 asph. The Leica apo is indeed expensive but there is no free lunch and its resale value is second to none. FWIW.

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1 minute ago, Goposer said:

When you sell the used Leica APO you lose thousands. A new 50Apo retail is $9,395? You’ll sell it used for? The price is insanity. Nothing justifies this price. 

I guess you are new to Leica to be that surprised but you don't have to buy new of course. I bought my Leica 50/2 apo in as new condition for EUR 5200 in 2015. If I were to sell it today I could make some money with a bit of luck ;).

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32 minutes ago, Goposer said:

It’s not bulky. Nobody ever declares the Summilux “bulky”. And you didn’t come after the OP when he said it. 🤷🏻‍♂️ … in terms of every day use, like the OP said, they’re just about the same size

I don't recall what the OP said sorry but facts are facts. As you show it yourself the CV 50/2 apo is closer to a 50/1.4 than a 50/2 lens as far as size is concerned so you can understand that people like me are not interested. I would much prefer a Leica 50/2 v5 or an even smaller 50/2 v4 personally but it's just me :cool:.

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The first rule of Leica Club is: don’t talk about how much we spend in Leica Club.

I dunno, but I came here hoping to learn how these lenses differ as optics and tools, not expenses. Guess I need to re-up my Reid Reviews subscription.

Cheers!

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4 hours ago, lct said:

I prefer small lenses generally so i like much my tiny CV lenses (15/4.5, 21/3.5, 21/4, 28/2, 35/2) but i'm less interested in more bulky lenses like CV 50/2 apo. The Leica 50/2 apo has no competitor at its optical level from this viewpoint. Here compared to Leica 50/2 v5 and 50/1.4 asph. The Leica apo is indeed expensive but there is no free lunch and its resale value is second to none. FWIW.

Can't have too many 50's...👍

 

 

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Thus, what is the moral of the story when considering the recent posts?

Those lucky photographers who go for the Voigtländer APO save the equivalent of 70 toilet cleanings (to „clean their toilet with $100 bills“) and they may 70 times feel like „doctors and lawyers“… Boy,  oh boy!

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Posted (edited)

The question that is on my mind: does it have to be $100 bills, and why not a smaller denomination? 

 

I find this discussion about small and large lenses for the M-system interesting. Small and large in most discussions probably only refers to the Leica M world (yes, this is the Leica forum). I come from a Nikon D700 with three Milvus lenses and find anything with Leica small and light, even my M10-Telyt 135 combination. Having to carry kilos less nowadays, stopped me thinking about saving an extra 100-200grams. Only saying size and weight are subjective, nothing more.

Edited by stephan54
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5 hours ago, JonPB said:

Guess I need to re-up my Reid Reviews subscription.

If you want serious objective comparative testing there is nowhere better for Leica, Voigtlander  and, now sadly out of production, Zeiss lens. Not bad for cameras too. Reference to Sean's site would answer much of the navel gazing and speculation in this and other threads..

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19 minutes ago, Goposer said:

But saying that the VL APO is a big lens is just nonsense. 

It is just a bigger lens. Perhaps the bigger 50/2 M lens ever made but i may be wrong. Now if CV makes an apo lens as compact as the Leica in the future i will be much interested. 

M 50/2 v4
Length: 42mm
Diameter: 52mm
Filters: 39mm

M 50/2 v5
Length: 43.5mm
Diameter: 53mm
Filters: 39mm

M 50/2 apo
Length: 47mm
Diameter: 53mm
Filters: 39mm

CV 50/2 apo
Length: 53mm
Diameter: 55.6mm
Filters: 49mm

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Goposer said:

Nothing justifies the price new or used.

I think you should add  "IMHO". The 50mm APO has sold in large numbers to buyers who can appreciate its optical excellence and build quality.

 

 

Edited by pedaes
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16 minutes ago, Goposer said:

I’m getting bored of this already.

I sympathise so i wonder if i may tell you the sad truth... In fact the CV 50/2 apo is the bulkiest 50/2 M lens ever made in the whole galaxy :D. Just kidding. 

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8 hours ago, Robert Blanko said:

Thus, what is the moral of the story when considering the recent posts?

Those lucky photographers who go for the Voigtländer APO save the equivalent of 70 toilet cleanings (to „clean their toilet with $100 bills“) and they may 70 times feel like „doctors and lawyers“… Boy,  oh boy!

I don't think you can clean a toilet with a single $100 bill.  So, ...

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vor 3 Stunden schrieb Goposer:

I agree of course. But calling THIS particular lens here a “small” lens shouldn’t be subjective by any stretch of the imagination.

As I said coming from Nikon and Milvus lenses, also his lens is small in comparison. I find the Telyt 135 small if I put it next to the Nikkor 135.

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Posted (edited)

I don't own either, but am interested in both, so would love to know what folks say about the optics!

Sean Reid did an extensive comparison. He identified the VC's size issue and thought it also had a bit more CA (mostly correctable). But he judged the VC actually a better overall performer (implied, not stated). So, I was excited, because it's affordable for me.

Alas, every once in a while someone posts a photo from the Leica lens that simply blows me away: perfect rendering, perfect fall-off, perfect bokeh. It tells a story like no other lens I've ever seen. It's the only Leica APO that does that for me, largely because it's the perfect focal length for those qualities (for me!). No other glass, except S glass on an S body evokes those emotions in me (digitally that is: I shoot mainly film).

I've tried and tried to convince myself that the VC version can do the same, saving me lots of money. But I have never seen a photo posted anywhere (Instagram, Flickr, etc) that does that for me. It has the technical chops, but it just doesn't have the magic.

I very, very much hope I'm wrong.

 

Edited by bags27
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3 hours ago, Goposer said:

I’m getting bored of this already. The lens is a small lens. That’s all there is to it. 

47mm = 1.8 inches 
53mm = 2 inches.

0.2” taller!!!

2 inches in length. Wow. Enormous. 😅

Totally worth $8,000+ for 0.2” less. 

Im sure they will redesign the most optically perfect lens they’ve ever made to shave 0.2”. They’ll get right on that! 🤣

This is the Leica forum. If a few mm didn’t mean anything here, that would have eliminated years of intense discussion regarding the size of the M240 vs the M10 vs M film bodies. An ‘outsider’ would of course see them as all the same.  Inside view or outside view?
 

And if the issue is about how much Leica gear costs and performs relative to other camera gear, that accounts for decades of discussion on all the other camera forums. Again, inside view vs outside view.

Old debates. Same ones as in the high end car world, watch world, etc, etc. 

Jeff

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12 minutes ago, Jeff S said:

This is the Leica forum. If a few mm didn’t mean anything here, that would have eliminated years of intense discussion regarding the size of the M240 vs the M10 vs M film bodies. An ‘outsider’ would of course see them as all the same.  Inside view or outside view?
 

And if the issue is about how much Leica gear costs and performs relative to other camera gear, that accounts for decades of discussion on all the other camera forums. Again, inside view vs outside view.

Old debates. Same ones as in the high end car world, watch world, etc, etc. 

Jeff

Except that in those other worlds, people wipe toilets with 1000$ bills.Which is brilliant, if you ask me. 

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