Stuart Richardson Posted May 17, 2022 Share #41 Posted May 17, 2022 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) 1 hour ago, Goposer said: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Not trying to be too pedantic, but the Leica lens there is not the 50mm APO, I don't think, but the standard Leica 50mm Summicron, which I believe is smaller than the APO. As for the price difference, I personally agree with Goposer, in that there is not a 7000 dollar difference in performance, and I do think that is objective unless you just believe that price is wholly meaningless. That does not mean, however, that there is no reason to buy the Leica lens for anyone. Even if that is just "I like shooting Leica cameras with Leica lenses". People spend money all the time for things which are not particularly practical. The main difference here is that Leica is a luxury goods company in a high labor cost country that is part owned by private equity that is positioning to charge as much as humanly possible. Their prices have gone up a way higher rate than inflation, if you compare the prices of items they have made over the last 30 or 40 years. There are other threads on this. Meanwhile, Voigtlander is a company that is geared very heavily towards enthusiasts, and is marketed towards amateurs (even if they are used by pros) who are looking for high quality, low cost mechanical lenses. They are made in a lower cost labor country and in higher volumes than Leica lenses. Their market positions and characteristics are totally different, even if the products wind up in the same spot on a camera. Personally, I think it is amazing and wonderful that the performance that you can get out of the best Leica lenses are now available to a broader set of users. I also think it is totally fair to point out that different places can make a huge difference in what kind of lenses are practical. As Olaf_ZG mentioned, the cost of getting his roof repaired in Croatia is less than the cost of the Leica lens. Unfortunately that was definitely not the case for me here in Iceland... Edited May 17, 2022 by Stuart Richardson 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 17, 2022 Posted May 17, 2022 Hi Stuart Richardson, Take a look here Voigtlander 50mm f/2 APO vs Leica 50mm f/2 APO. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Huss Posted May 17, 2022 Share #42 Posted May 17, 2022 When I had my roof repaired last year it was $12000. So less than one Noctilux .95. I think I made the right choice. 😜 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 17, 2022 Share #43 Posted May 17, 2022 I prefer small lenses generally so i like much my tiny CV lenses (15/4.5, 21/3.5, 21/4, 28/2, 35/2) but i'm less interested in more bulky lenses like CV 50/2 apo. The Leica 50/2 apo has no competitor at its optical level from this viewpoint. Here compared to Leica 50/2 v5 and 50/1.4 asph. The Leica apo is indeed expensive but there is no free lunch and its resale value is second to none. FWIW. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/329816-voigtlander-50mm-f2-apo-vs-leica-50mm-f2-apo/?do=findComment&comment=4436911'>More sharing options...
lct Posted May 17, 2022 Share #44 Posted May 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Goposer said: When you sell the used Leica APO you lose thousands. A new 50Apo retail is $9,395? You’ll sell it used for? The price is insanity. Nothing justifies this price. I guess you are new to Leica to be that surprised but you don't have to buy new of course. I bought my Leica 50/2 apo in as new condition for EUR 5200 in 2015. If I were to sell it today I could make some money with a bit of luck . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 17, 2022 Share #45 Posted May 17, 2022 32 minutes ago, Goposer said: It’s not bulky. Nobody ever declares the Summilux “bulky”. And you didn’t come after the OP when he said it. 🤷🏻♂️ … in terms of every day use, like the OP said, they’re just about the same size I don't recall what the OP said sorry but facts are facts. As you show it yourself the CV 50/2 apo is closer to a 50/1.4 than a 50/2 lens as far as size is concerned so you can understand that people like me are not interested. I would much prefer a Leica 50/2 v5 or an even smaller 50/2 v4 personally but it's just me . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonPB Posted May 18, 2022 Share #46 Posted May 18, 2022 The first rule of Leica Club is: don’t talk about how much we spend in Leica Club. I dunno, but I came here hoping to learn how these lenses differ as optics and tools, not expenses. Guess I need to re-up my Reid Reviews subscription. Cheers! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoarFM Posted May 18, 2022 Share #47 Posted May 18, 2022 Advertisement (gone after registration) 4 hours ago, lct said: I prefer small lenses generally so i like much my tiny CV lenses (15/4.5, 21/3.5, 21/4, 28/2, 35/2) but i'm less interested in more bulky lenses like CV 50/2 apo. The Leica 50/2 apo has no competitor at its optical level from this viewpoint. Here compared to Leica 50/2 v5 and 50/1.4 asph. The Leica apo is indeed expensive but there is no free lunch and its resale value is second to none. FWIW. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Can't have too many 50's...👍 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Blanko Posted May 18, 2022 Share #48 Posted May 18, 2022 Thus, what is the moral of the story when considering the recent posts? Those lucky photographers who go for the Voigtländer APO save the equivalent of 70 toilet cleanings (to „clean their toilet with $100 bills“) and they may 70 times feel like „doctors and lawyers“… Boy, oh boy! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephan54 Posted May 18, 2022 Share #49 Posted May 18, 2022 (edited) The question that is on my mind: does it have to be $100 bills, and why not a smaller denomination? I find this discussion about small and large lenses for the M-system interesting. Small and large in most discussions probably only refers to the Leica M world (yes, this is the Leica forum). I come from a Nikon D700 with three Milvus lenses and find anything with Leica small and light, even my M10-Telyt 135 combination. Having to carry kilos less nowadays, stopped me thinking about saving an extra 100-200grams. Only saying size and weight are subjective, nothing more. Edited May 18, 2022 by stephan54 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 18, 2022 Share #50 Posted May 18, 2022 5 hours ago, JonPB said: Guess I need to re-up my Reid Reviews subscription. If you want serious objective comparative testing there is nowhere better for Leica, Voigtlander and, now sadly out of production, Zeiss lens. Not bad for cameras too. Reference to Sean's site would answer much of the navel gazing and speculation in this and other threads.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 18, 2022 Share #51 Posted May 18, 2022 19 minutes ago, Goposer said: But saying that the VL APO is a big lens is just nonsense. It is just a bigger lens. Perhaps the bigger 50/2 M lens ever made but i may be wrong. Now if CV makes an apo lens as compact as the Leica in the future i will be much interested. M 50/2 v4 Length: 42mm Diameter: 52mm Filters: 39mm M 50/2 v5 Length: 43.5mm Diameter: 53mm Filters: 39mm M 50/2 apo Length: 47mm Diameter: 53mm Filters: 39mm CV 50/2 apo Length: 53mm Diameter: 55.6mm Filters: 49mm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 18, 2022 Share #52 Posted May 18, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Goposer said: Nothing justifies the price new or used. I think you should add "IMHO". The 50mm APO has sold in large numbers to buyers who can appreciate its optical excellence and build quality. Edited May 18, 2022 by pedaes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedaes Posted May 18, 2022 Share #53 Posted May 18, 2022 3 minutes ago, Goposer said: I get it. Unfortunately you don't - but just buy what you want and stop fussing about why others see it differently. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 18, 2022 Share #54 Posted May 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, Goposer said: I’m getting bored of this already. I sympathise so i wonder if i may tell you the sad truth... In fact the CV 50/2 apo is the bulkiest 50/2 M lens ever made in the whole galaxy . Just kidding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danner Posted May 18, 2022 Share #55 Posted May 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Robert Blanko said: Thus, what is the moral of the story when considering the recent posts? Those lucky photographers who go for the Voigtländer APO save the equivalent of 70 toilet cleanings (to „clean their toilet with $100 bills“) and they may 70 times feel like „doctors and lawyers“… Boy, oh boy! I don't think you can clean a toilet with a single $100 bill. So, ... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephan54 Posted May 18, 2022 Share #56 Posted May 18, 2022 vor 3 Stunden schrieb Goposer: I agree of course. But calling THIS particular lens here a “small” lens shouldn’t be subjective by any stretch of the imagination. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! As I said coming from Nikon and Milvus lenses, also his lens is small in comparison. I find the Telyt 135 small if I put it next to the Nikkor 135. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capuccino-Muffin Posted May 18, 2022 Share #57 Posted May 18, 2022 If goposer put in as much effort into making money than he is into shilling for voigtlander, he maybe could afford to buy a Leica lens? 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bags27 Posted May 18, 2022 Share #58 Posted May 18, 2022 (edited) I don't own either, but am interested in both, so would love to know what folks say about the optics! Sean Reid did an extensive comparison. He identified the VC's size issue and thought it also had a bit more CA (mostly correctable). But he judged the VC actually a better overall performer (implied, not stated). So, I was excited, because it's affordable for me. Alas, every once in a while someone posts a photo from the Leica lens that simply blows me away: perfect rendering, perfect fall-off, perfect bokeh. It tells a story like no other lens I've ever seen. It's the only Leica APO that does that for me, largely because it's the perfect focal length for those qualities (for me!). No other glass, except S glass on an S body evokes those emotions in me (digitally that is: I shoot mainly film). I've tried and tried to convince myself that the VC version can do the same, saving me lots of money. But I have never seen a photo posted anywhere (Instagram, Flickr, etc) that does that for me. It has the technical chops, but it just doesn't have the magic. I very, very much hope I'm wrong. Edited May 18, 2022 by bags27 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted May 18, 2022 Share #59 Posted May 18, 2022 3 hours ago, Goposer said: I’m getting bored of this already. The lens is a small lens. That’s all there is to it. 47mm = 1.8 inches 53mm = 2 inches. 0.2” taller!!! 2 inches in length. Wow. Enormous. 😅 Totally worth $8,000+ for 0.2” less. Im sure they will redesign the most optically perfect lens they’ve ever made to shave 0.2”. They’ll get right on that! 🤣 This is the Leica forum. If a few mm didn’t mean anything here, that would have eliminated years of intense discussion regarding the size of the M240 vs the M10 vs M film bodies. An ‘outsider’ would of course see them as all the same. Inside view or outside view? And if the issue is about how much Leica gear costs and performs relative to other camera gear, that accounts for decades of discussion on all the other camera forums. Again, inside view vs outside view. Old debates. Same ones as in the high end car world, watch world, etc, etc. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capuccino-Muffin Posted May 18, 2022 Share #60 Posted May 18, 2022 12 minutes ago, Jeff S said: This is the Leica forum. If a few mm didn’t mean anything here, that would have eliminated years of intense discussion regarding the size of the M240 vs the M10 vs M film bodies. An ‘outsider’ would of course see them as all the same. Inside view or outside view? And if the issue is about how much Leica gear costs and performs relative to other camera gear, that accounts for decades of discussion on all the other camera forums. Again, inside view vs outside view. Old debates. Same ones as in the high end car world, watch world, etc, etc. Jeff Except that in those other worlds, people wipe toilets with 1000$ bills.Which is brilliant, if you ask me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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