Portugal lenses availability

[84bravo]

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I just looked at the Tamarkin website and noticed that the less expensive Portugal lenses are no longer listed. Does anyone know if these lenses were discontinued?

 

A couple of weeks ago I had to put in an estimate for the next fiscal year capital budget and I used the less expensive Portugal lens prices. While not a huge difference in the proposed budget, it does put a wrinkle into things immediately for me.

[Al Brown]

What we learned from this is to never put anything other than Wetzlar made lenses into our budgets.

[Al Brown]

BTW there are still Portugal lenses available at the World Famous Store: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/leica-made-in-portugal/ci/48275

[RexGig0]

Leica Store Miami also has many of the Made-In-Portugal lenses in stock.

https://leicastoremiami.com/collections/leica-m-system-m-system-lenses

Regardless of the store, do not wait too long. Spring time triggers lens buying, for the Northern Hemisphere’s traditional summer travel season.

Edited February 15, 2022 by RexGig0

[kivis]

On 2/14/2022 at 3:39 PM, Al Brown said:

What we learned from this is to never put anything other than Wetzlar made lenses into our budgets.

Not my experience at all. My made in Portugal  Leica Summicron 50/2 has been an outstanding performer in everyway. Plus I saved a few bucks.

[Al Brown]

12 minutes ago, kivis said:

Not my experience at all. My made in Portugal  Leica Summicron 50/2 has been an outstanding performer in everyway. Plus I saved a few bucks.

Was not talking about performance - it is flawless. The OP was talking about cheaper budgeting and the perks of a product suddenly being discontinued.

[kivis]

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So are the Portugal versions going away?

[adan]

Of course - they were always just a "dodge" to get around US tariffs on German-made photographic optics.

Or more accurately, optics assembled in Germany and thus bearing a "Made in Germany" label.

Now that the US/EU trade war and tariffs are in abeyance, the Portugal factory will keep making the many lens parts they always made, and all final assembly will return (probably did return, months ago) to Wetzlar.

Which is not a knock on Portugese skills, just a way for Leica to return to earning the "Made in Germany" engraving and premium.

I note Tamarkin is selling off their remaining Made-in-Portugal lenses in their Used lens listings - one by one, marked "NEW," and still at the "Portugese-discounted" prices.

There's a 50mm Summilux ASPH in black listed as I write. There was another last month - can't recall which lens.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaapv]

On 2/14/2022 at 9:32 PM, 84bravo said:

I just looked at the Tamarkin website and noticed that the less expensive Portugal lenses are no longer listed. Does anyone know if these lenses were discontinued?

 

A couple of weeks ago I had to put in an estimate for the next fiscal year capital budget and I used the less expensive Portugal lens prices. While not a huge difference in the proposed budget, it does put a wrinkle into things immediately for me.

They are not discontinued, they are just engraved "made in Germany" again.

[LeicaR10]

Kivis,   If you want any of the Leica M lenses Made in Portugal, you can buy them from Camera West in Rancho Mirage, CA.  The owner bought the remaining stocks of all those Made in Portugal lenses from Leica USA.   r/ Mark

[derleicaman]

The latest Leica USA dealer price sheets show the Portugal lenses as discontinued. As Adan noted above, many of the components are made in Portugal.

I was able to visit the factory in Portugal this past November. I will have an article with images in the next LHSA Viewfinder we are working on now.

BTW, I am organizing another trip to Portugal and Wetzlar in October

[Anbaric]

On 4/22/2022 at 1:35 AM, adan said:

Now that the US/EU trade war and tariffs are in abeyance, the Portugal factory will keep making the many lens parts they always made, and all final assembly will return (probably did return, months ago) to Wetzlar.

Do we know for sure whether they ever changed the place of assembly, let alone where any of the components were made? Would, say, a lens assembled in Wetzlar from Portugese parts be both sufficiently Portugese and sufficiently German to bear either label? And 'assembly' is also something of a slippery concept. In that video showing digital M cameras being finished in Germany that was doing the rounds a while back, the bodies were already in a largely (if loosely) assembled state on arrival from Portugal - the German factory was apparently just opening the cameras up to fit the sensors, making adjustments, and screwing them back together.

[adan]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:13 AM, Anbaric said:

Do we know for sure....

Short answer - no, we don't.

Longer answer - I'd assume Leica Camera AG conforms to whatever the EU rules are regarding labelled "country of origin."

I do know that Leica maintains a "tame machine shop" in Leitz Park Wetzlar - Uwe Weller Feinwerktechnik - which apparently originated from Leica Camera spinning off some of that work in the 1990s. (Separate building - Leica always has to deal with keeping milling and glass-grinding, which produce detritus, far away from the final-assembly "clean rooms.") From Uwe Weller's web site, lens focus rings and other parts, as well as the machines to make them, seem to be part of what IS manufacturered in Leitz Park.

https://www.weller-feinwerktechnik.de/en/content/company/history.html

https://www.weller-feinwerktechnik.de/en/content/products.html

Even more complicated, UWF also makes "stuff" for Leica Microsystems - and for Zeiss - and for anyone else who wants to hire them.

..............

And that doesn't even get into the entwined business relationships (which may or may not be relevant): UWF is owned by Dr. Kaufmann's ACM Projektentwicklung GmbH, which also owns 55% of Leica, which itself (did you know?) since 2013 owns the Swiss studio/large-format camera company Sinar, just as Leica owned Minox a couple of decades back.

Leica Microsystems (microscopes and such) is wholly-owned by the US investment firm Danaher, and Leica Geosystems (surveying gear, optical and laser) is based in Heerbrugg, Switzerland (no dount related to the time when Leica was merged with Wild-Heerbrugg as Wild-Leica (1990± 5 years))- but is actually now owned by Hexagon AB, a Swedish holding company with a strong "data" focus. Yet both also use the Portugese Leica factory (or did in the past) for making "stuff." It is quite the multi-corporate, multinational "ecosystem."

The "Leica" trademark is owned by Leica Microsystems (i.e. Danaher) and licensed to Leica Camera and Leica Geosystems.

Once you figure all that out, let's talk again about who actually makes what where when, and why.

Edited August 10, 2022 by adan

[pgk]

5 hours ago, adan said:

I'd assume Leica Camera AG conforms to whatever the EU rules are regarding labelled "country of origin."

Well, these only apply IN Europe as far as I am aware. Once outside EU jurisdiction they probably no are longer enforceable and the rules of the country to which they have been exported will no doubt take precedence .......😉.

[pedaes]

6 hours ago, adan said:

actually makes

If anyone is getting serious also need to be clear on 'made' and 'assembled'. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by pedaes

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jaeger]

1 hour ago, pedaes said:

If anyone is getting serious also need to be clear on 'made' and 'assembled'. 

further more... "parts from"

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Huss]

I think the rule is if you have a cousin who visited that country while on a gap year before going to Uni, you can claim that country as the place of manufacture.

Pretty sure that's it.

[jakontil]

On 8/10/2022 at 1:07 PM, adan said:

Short answer - no, we don't.

Longer answer - I'd assume Leica Camera AG conforms to whatever the EU rules are regarding labelled "country of origin."

I do know that Leica maintains a "tame machine shop" in Leitz Park Wetzlar - Uwe Weller Feinwerktechnik - which apparently originated from Leica Camera spinning off some of that work in the 1990s. (Separate building - Leica always has to deal with keeping milling and glass-grinding, which produce detritus, far away from the final-assembly "clean rooms.") From Uwe Weller's web site, lens focus rings and other parts, as well as the machines to make them, seem to be part of what IS manufacturered in Leitz Park.

https://www.weller-feinwerktechnik.de/en/content/company/history.html

https://www.weller-feinwerktechnik.de/en/content/products.html

Even more complicated, UWF also makes "stuff" for Leica Microsystems - and for Zeiss - and for anyone else who wants to hire them.

..............

And that doesn't even get into the entwined business relationships (which may or may not be relevant): UWF is owned by Dr. Kaufmann's ACM Projektentwicklung GmbH, which also owns 55% of Leica, which itself (did you know?) since 2013 owns the Swiss studio/large-format camera company Sinar, just as Leica owned Minox a couple of decades back.

Leica Microsystems (microscopes and such) is wholly-owned by the US investment firm Danaher, and Leica Geosystems (surveying gear, optical and laser) is based in Heerbrugg, Switzerland (no dount related to the time when Leica was merged with Wild-Heerbrugg as Wild-Leica (1990± 5 years))- but is actually now owned by Hexagon AB, a Swedish holding company with a strong "data" focus. Yet both also use the Portugese Leica factory (or did in the past) for making "stuff." It is quite the multi-corporate, multinational "ecosystem."

The "Leica" trademark is owned by Leica Microsystems (i.e. Danaher) and licensed to Leica Camera and Leica Geosystems.

Once you figure all that out, let's talk again about who actually makes what where when, and why.

Very interesting, read bout it before but ur brief explanation make it all sensible

[hdmesa]

On 4/21/2022 at 8:10 PM, derleicaman said:

The latest Leica USA dealer price sheets show the Portugal lenses as discontinued. As Adan noted above, many of the components are made in Portugal.

I was able to visit the factory in Portugal this past November. I will have an article with images in the next LHSA Viewfinder we are working on now.

BTW, I am organizing another trip to Portugal and Wetzlar in October

Portugal stock seems to be finally running dry for some of them:

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[Bear]

I managed to snag a lux black chrome MIP and a cron 28 MIP. I always felt a bit down that the Leica hive mind believed these were less desirable lenses despite no difference in performance. Now that they are so shortly being discontinued, I feel fairly happy for some reason and will definitely covet these lenses now. Weird how humans work eh.