Unknown Leica Body

[hemax]

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Dear Members.

 

I have come across a Leica camera without a serial number that does not fit the known structure. The housing appears to be from the Ia series, but shows a lens mount marked "0" that was not used from before production of the Ic. Also, the lens mount is assembled by some hand cut parts and not Ic series production as known. Could it be a development model?

Any information welcomed.

Thank you for all your ideas...

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[luigi bertolotti]

Welcome to the Forum !!  This looks to be a classic "Frankenstein Leica"... I doubt it's an in-factory "lab" item... in my opinion, a tentative rebuilt with parts taken with various items and maybe spares... other opinions welcome... in the forum we have some people very experienced on such works.... which, if properly carried on, can bring to nice working items (see this one, for instance : https://www.ebay.it/itm/265546172053?hash=item3dd3c90695:g:0WAAAOSwekRiB5Wc )... but this clearly isn't such a case 🙄

Edited February 12, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

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[willeica]

The hand cut parts look like shims that were normally used with the I Model A behind the lens mount to achieve focus on the film plane. The process would have been done by unplugging the little round hole at the back of the camera and using a ground glass screen. Jerzy would be able to advise you on this as he will have done this process. He may also be able to advise about where a serial number might be on the chassis of the camera. I agree with Luigi that this was not a factory job, but rather one that was done by an outside party, with bits and pieces that may have come from the factory. In its present guise, the camera could be classified as a I Model C and if the '0' mount is working it might be regarded as standardised.

William 

[luigi bertolotti]

Yes, disclosing/revealing the original s/n could be a significant achievement... but I wonder if the top was maybe sourced as a factory spare, unnumbered... it looks to have a rather worn but "fine" paint...

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by luigi bertolotti

[doctorlebel]

The 4th picture which shows the lens mount ring, the upper and lower lens mount brackets and the thin lens mount shims are all examples of what one would see when they removed the lens assembly from a tranditional Leica 1 Model A.

[jerzy]

I cannot read serial - camera repainted? Serial blacked out on the photo? 
all parts look good to me, they were as such in early times. Camera was either very early IC (non-std, standarised later), or was IA with serial below 40xxx and was converted to IC std.

Shims under the lens flange were used as well in later cameras, until approx mid 1934. later a brass ring was pressed into alu shell and lathed off precisely to match 28,8mm

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Edited February 12, 2022 by jerzy

[hemax]

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Dear Jerzy,

 

The housing is in the original color. In my opinion, there was never a serial number on the housing, as there is not the slightest trace of engraving or sanding.

Interestingly, there is only one screw on each of the long sides (front and back), supplemented by one on each narrow side. That would correspond to an Ia, wouldn't it?

The lens mount is on top of the lug for a fixed mounted lens. Therefore, there is a gap above the leathering where the screw also sits.

The work is not done with great (optical) elegance, rather "tentatively". Also the screws show clear traces of work. Hence my assumption of a lab sample. A permanent conversion could easily be made with greater care and better result.

 

Regards

[jerzy]

vor 17 Minuten schrieb hemax:

there is only one screw on each of the long sides (front and back), supplemented by one on each narrow side. That would correspond to an Ia, wouldn't it?

at aprox 40xxx 4 screws (as they are now) were changed to 6 screws, Early IC non-std have 4 screws as well

[dg4mgr]

Leica Ia that were converted to interchangeable lens mount are not uncommon. What is remarkable with this camera is that there seems to be no serial number on the top plate.

Can you find a serial number inside the body, like on this one?

https://www.ebay.de/itm/154402892776?hash=item23f3212be8:g:O1wAAOSwii5garmm

 

[hemax]

Thank you for your mail!

No SN found yet! I will take the camera apart for cleaning anyway, let´s see...

 

hemax

[hemax]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb doctorlebel:

The 4th picture which shows the lens mount ring, the upper and lower lens mount brackets and the thin lens mount shims are all examples of what one would see when they removed the lens assembly from a tranditional Leica 1 Model A.

Dear doctorlebel,

 

What makes me wonder is that there are too many holes in the upper bracket, right? I would not understand that for a bracket intended for mass production....

 

Regards

hemax

[jerzy]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb hemax:

I would not understand that for a bracket intended for mass production..

bracket comes from II/III. If your camera was converted after 1932 (after introduction of II) this part could have been used for conversion.
Lugi wrote before that it could be "Frankenstein" - yes, if there is really no serial on top cover it is possible that someone (possibly having access to the factory) assembled it from available parts. Top cover with 4 screws is uniquely for early IA/IC.

[hemax]

sounds reasonable and also gives an increasingly reasonable overall picture

 

thank you!

[250swb]

50 minutes ago, jerzy said:

If your camera was converted after 1932 (after introduction of II) this part could have been used for conversion.
 

Just out of interest, assuming the vulcanite was repaired at the same time as the camera converted would the apparent coarser texture of vulcanite used in the repairs indicate a possible earliest date? I think the repairs look like vulcanite of a later date was used. Obviously repairing vulcanite can be done at any time, but damaging it and necessitating repair is also done by removing screws and lens mounts etc. 

[hemax]

A good thought..

By the way, is there any chance to get a small piece of vulcanit to repir the front completely (best with same texture)?