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Buying TL2 in 2022, A good idea?


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If you want an APS-C camera, I suggest that you look at the Fuji X series. The Fuji XT4 is excellent and the Fuji primes are great. Way more affordable than Leica.

I owned previous versions of the Fuji XT and several Fuji primes and zooms. I never had any problems with the gear and I have many excellent images in my portfolio from the five years that I shot with this system.

In late 1997, I sold off my Fuji kit to buy a Leica M10 and a few Leica primes. Since then I upgraded the M10 to the M10-R and I also have the new M11. Although I love the Leica M and primes, 2 primes that I bought with the M10 were miscalibrated out of the box. I had to send them to the Leica repair center in Avondale, NJ and it took them 6 weeks to get them back to me. I purchased the APO Summicron 50mm and after a short time the front of the lens came loose so it had to be sent in for repairs. Then, the Summilux 50 that came miscalibrated from the factory developed a loose front element so it had to be repaired a second time. My M11 had hot pixels in shadow details at ISOs above 2500. I sent the camera in and Leica replaced the sensor. I bought the Leica Tri-Elmar 16-18-21 as a demo from Leica SoHo. The resulting images just didn't look sharp so I sent it to Leica a few weeks ago. They are replacing the the front elements and mechanism which they told me will take another 4-6 weeks before I get my lens back.

My point is that although I love my Leica M (I also own an SL2 with Leica zoom lenses), Leica quality control is lacking. In 30 years of shooting a variety of pro Canon film and digital SLRS and then 5 years shooting Fuji-X, I never had to send any item in for service. In contrast, Leica has been sadly disappointing in this regard.

Again, check out Fuji-X if you are looking for a reliable APS-C camera with excellent glass. 

Regards,
Bud James

Please check out my fine art and travel photography at www.budjames.photography.

Edited by budjames
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I understand why you are checking TL2.

Since Leica gave up APS-C system, lots of TL & TL2 users are throwing them to the used market now and its value is lowest I've ever seen. I believe that you can get used TL2 for $1,100-1,400 USD. It is such a crazy deal, but you have to consider why it is getting cheaper in the used market. If you checked CL forum, lots of CL users are disappointed with Leica's direction, but they all think they will keep CL and recommend to catch CL if you can before it is gone in the store. I am also keeping my CL and it will stay with me until its shutter dies. TL2 is very nice camera. I like the design, form factor, and touch screen friendly system for photographers, but there is a huge difference between CL EVF and Leica Visoflex in terms of performance and EVF resolution.

If you have several cameras for serious work, I think TL2 is a good option to have.

If you have less than 3 camera bodies to cover up specific situations, go for CL or check other systems like budjames recommended Fuji system. I am also keeping Fuji X-T1 with 3 lenses for convenient and low-cost business option and it still creates amazing image quality. 

Edited by Ray Im
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My short answer to the question.  No do not buy TL2 from new.  I would not do that today.  I have TL2 - all Tl zoom and TL 35 f1.4 + M Leica.  Unfortunately, Leica has no alternative today to APSC and has completely stopped doing so.  So the only option is, for example, Fuji as Bud suggests.  One option is a used TL2 - they are down to a price that is unreasonably low for a Leica.  But the question is whether it makes sense to invest in TL lenses.  I do not think so…. Unfortunately

Another option is one of the small camera housings from Nikon, Canon or Sony FF.  They are far more user-friendly and much cheaper.  But they will be bigger.  But the facts are Leica has stopped a fantastic system cameras.

Edited by Kim Dahl
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I’m soldiering on with the CL, M262, M246 and figure at some point down the road to have an SL2 variant of some sort to use with both lens systems.

A TL2 with no eyelevel finder holds no allure for me. I’d be more apt to get another CL, whether one of the last new units or barely used. I own pretty much the entire TL lens catalog and switch out what I’m carrying around all the time with the exceptions of the 11-23 and 35/1.4, which remain in the bag pretty much all the time.

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Well that was a pretty short love affair for me, just 2 dates.

Really liked the files and the rear screen…except the screen began to fail on the second date (second wedding).

I was really enjoying it with Sigma’s 65mm f2 but a series of black lines was beginning to develop on the right side of the screen and the touch screen facility was beginning to fail.

So it was picked up by DHL today for return to the used dealer I bought it from and they don’t have another for exchange so decided to just play safe and get a second S1R.

Ah well, I was a Leica owner/user for 2 jobs and maybe one day again will be…though I’d like a tilt screen please.

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  • 1 month later...

I just picked up a refurbished TL2 for a steal.  I really prefer a camera with an EVF, but the TL makes better sense as a back up to my CL than my M43 cameras, due to the shared lens mount. I guess I want to sort of consolidate and concentrate on one system. Ideally I would've bought a second CL, but the TL2 was literally half the cost of the cheapest CL I could find, plus I think the industrial design is interesting and unique, and worth adding to my collection. I think it will pair well with my 18mm and 23mm TL lenses, with larger lenses used on my CL, like the 35 or any of the zooms. I also have an M-mount adapter and a few M lenses, but I think those too will work better on the CL due to the EVF and focus peaking. I guess the TL2 has focus peaking but I've heard it's not great? It's done really well on the CL, IMO. I did consider picking up a Visoflex for the TL2, but it just makes the camera so much less affordable (>50% price increase), and it looks sort of bulky and awkward, and will never be as good as the CL EVF anyway. I guess time will tell if this was a reasonable purchase or just a case of GAS...

I did also consider a T, which I've seen REALLY cheap from time to time, but I thought all the incremental improvements leading up to the TL2 were probably worth the extra expense. That, and I really like the idea of my back up cam not giving up anything in terms of IQ, being the same sensor as the CL.

Edited by MJB
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I use a TL w/18mm lens and got it for a relatively low price.  The versatility, compact size, and quality pics is second to none.  Plus I can use the M-F adapter to use my M-lenses (insane).  I don't care about any firmware updates and don't care about it being discontinued.  If it breaks, I get another one for a cheap price.  

No, I don't use this set up for more serious shooting; I use my M-digital cameras and film camera for that.  But for travel and spur of the moment shots, this is hard to beat.

Happy Shooting!

:)

CJ

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On 7/5/2022 at 2:00 PM, MJB said:

I just picked up a refurbished TL2 for a steal.  I really prefer a camera with an EVF, but the TL makes better sense as a back up to my CL than my M43 cameras, due to the shared lens mount. I guess I want to sort of consolidate and concentrate on one system. Ideally I would've bought a second CL, but the TL2 was literally half the cost of the cheapest CL I could find, plus I think the industrial design is interesting and unique, and worth adding to my collection. I think it will pair well with my 18mm and 23mm TL lenses, with larger lenses used on my CL, like the 35 or any of the zooms. I also have an M-mount adapter and a few M lenses, but I think those too will work better on the CL due to the EVF and focus peaking. I guess the TL2 has focus peaking but I've heard it's not great? It's done really well on the CL, IMO. I did consider picking up a Visoflex for the TL2, but it just makes the camera so much less affordable (>50% price increase), and it looks sort of bulky and awkward, and will never be as good as the CL EVF anyway. I guess time will tell if this was a reasonable purchase or just a case of GAS...

I did also consider a T, which I've seen REALLY cheap from time to time, but I thought all the incremental improvements leading up to the TL2 were probably worth the extra expense. That, and I really like the idea of my back up cam not giving up anything in terms of IQ, being the same sensor as the CL.

I think you have done well to buy TL2 instead of a second CL. At first TL2 seems a bit more difficult to use but when you have practiced it is much faster than traditional menus. Unless you have difficulty with mobility in your hands.
Visoflex is not necessary but it is recommended to have it for certain occasions. It fits in any pocket or bag.

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2 hours ago, Dopaco said:

I think you have done well to buy TL2 instead of a second CL. At first TL2 seems a bit more difficult to use but when you have practiced it is much faster than traditional menus. Unless you have difficulty with mobility in your hands.
Visoflex is not necessary but it is recommended to have it for certain occasions. It fits in any pocket or bag.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. I love my CL but I think it will be nice to mix it up a little with a different second body.  I also couldn't resist ordering a Visoflex. I found a used one from a Leica dealer for about $400, and they're throwing in the brown accessory pouch for free. Seemed like a pretty good price, relatively.

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My TL2 arrived today, just 6 days after ordering, which is pretty impressive because I ordered from an overseas US military address. Anyway, I’m thoroughly pleased. This TL2 was sold as refurbished but I didn’t quite know what to expect. What I got was a very new seeming camera, in the original box. No blemishes whatsoever, it even includes the little sticky plastic screen protector (although probably not the same one from the factory, which I think includes a Leica logo?). Anyway, it’s in really nice shape, includes all original accessories except I didn’t see the original rubber strap (which no one seems to like I guess). However, they did include a thin black leather Leica strap as well as some new-in-box Leica strap lug adapters. Also, supposedly includes a 1-year warranty from Leica. All in all, a very fair deal for $1099, I think (with free shipping). The seller is Roberts Camera, sold via eBay, if anyone is interested. They still have a few left, in silver and black both.

Edited by MJB
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vor 15 Stunden schrieb MJB:

My TL2 arrived today, just 6 days after ordering, which is pretty impressive because I ordered from an overseas US military address. Anyway, I’m thoroughly pleased. This TL2 was sold as refurbished but I didn’t quite know what to expect. What I got was a very new seeming camera, in the original box. No blemishes whatsoever, it even includes the little sticky plastic screen protector (although probably not the same one from the factory, which I think includes a Leica logo?). Anyway, it’s in really nice shape, includes all original accessories except I didn’t see the original rubber strap (which no one seems to like I guess). However, they did include a thin black leather Leica strap as well as some new-in-box Leica strap lug adapters. Also, supposedly includes a 1-year warranty from Leica. All in all, a very fair deal for $1099, I think (with free shipping). The seller is Roberts Camera, sold via eBay, if anyone is interested. They still have a few left, in silver and black both.

Congrats on the new addition to your camera bag. The TL2 is easy to personalize, just move the tiles around and set it up the way you see fit. You may also want to register the camera with Leica so that the warranty takes effect immediately. I sometimes go out and have my CL with a longer lens attached while throwing the TL2 with the 18mm into an extra pocket, that makes for a very convenient pairing.

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19 minutes ago, HuntingSand said:

Congrats on the new addition to your camera bag. The TL2 is easy to personalize, just move the tiles around and set it up the way you see fit. You may also want to register the camera with Leica so that the warranty takes effect immediately. I sometimes go out and have my CL with a longer lens attached while throwing the TL2 with the 18mm into an extra pocket, that makes for a very convenient pairing.

Thanks. My plan is like you say, to keep a smaller lens on the TL2 for use as a secondary camera to the CL.  The TL2 with the 18mm is quite slim, even pocketable (depending on the pockets, of course).  As much as I'm enjoying it, I do prefer the CL - not just the more traditional ergonomics, but I think it's more advanced then the TL2, probably due to lessons learned from the TL line - better focus peaking, better (more accurate, IMO) live view, highlight clipping in live view instead of just review, etc. Basically a lot of little things about the CL add up to a better experience for me. Really, the CL handily beats almost every other camera I've used (the EVF-Extended mode is brilliant, for example, and I can't find another camera that implements this as well).

Anyway, none of this to knock on the TL2. It's a fine camera and clearly a close cousin of the CL, but I'm finding it to have quite a unique character all its own.  I'm fortunate to own both and think they will complement each other well.  I'm also looking forward to trying out the Visoflex on the TL2.  I can think of use cases for shooting with and without it, but it'll be nice to have it available.

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I like the TL mainly for its practical use. As a dentist I need to photograph the mouth regularly. I use the Sigma Macro 70 on a TL with Touch AF and Release. With a shadowless LED operating light I do not even need a ring light. It is the most practical solution imaginable. Leica should consider selling this combo on the medical market.

In general, it is worth considering this combo with a ring flash for hand-held Macro.

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vor 12 Stunden schrieb MJB:

Thanks. My plan is like you say, to keep a smaller lens on the TL2 for use as a secondary camera to the CL.  The TL2 with the 18mm is quite slim, even pocketable (depending on the pockets, of course).  As much as I'm enjoying it, I do prefer the CL - not just the more traditional ergonomics, but I think it's more advanced then the TL2, probably due to lessons learned from the TL line - better focus peaking, better (more accurate, IMO) live view, highlight clipping in live view instead of just review, etc. Basically a lot of little things about the CL add up to a better experience for me. Really, the CL handily beats almost every other camera I've used (the EVF-Extended mode is brilliant, for example, and I can't find another camera that implements this as well).

Anyway, none of this to knock on the TL2. It's a fine camera and clearly a close cousin of the CL, but I'm finding it to have quite a unique character all its own.  I'm fortunate to own both and think they will complement each other well.  I'm also looking forward to trying out the Visoflex on the TL2.  I can think of use cases for shooting with and without it, but it'll be nice to have it available.

If the CL would have been a FF camera it quite possibly would have meant the end/decline of Leica's M line. All idle speculation of course...; re the Viso, I use it when I travel, specifically to acquire GPS data for the locations I find myself in (planned or unplanned, as the case may be). Happy shooting.

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  • 8 months later...

Ding Ding, Round 2!

After considering the: Q2, CL, X100V, XE4 and GR3X, came to the conclusion as a fully paid up member of the private gentleman’s club also known as The L Mount Alliance, another TL2 would serve me well as my personal camera.

Found a mint used one for around 800 euros and gone black this time as the silver was a bit too bling for my tastes.

Hoping the screen does not fail this time…

Sigma 18-50 to get the ball rolling as I already have that lens but I think an adapted M Mount Voigtlander is going to be the direction I take with this…

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7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

 

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Ding Ding, Ronda 2!

Después de considerar el: Q2, CL, X100V, XE4 y GR3X, llegué a la conclusión de que era un miembro totalmente pagado del club de caballeros privado también conocido como The L Mount Alliance, otro TL2 me serviría bien como mi cámara personal.

Encontré uno usado de menta por alrededor de 800 euros y esta vez se volvió negro porque el plateado era demasiado brillante para mi gusto.

Esperando que la pantalla no falle esta vez…

Sigma 18-50 para poner las cosas en marcha, ya que ya tengo esa lente, pero creo que una M Mount Voigtlander adaptada será la dirección que tome con esto...

It is a very low price, it can be a sign of suspicion, sometimes cheap is expensive.

Good luck, you'll tell how it goes.

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On 3/24/2023 at 1:56 PM, Dopaco said:

It is a very low price, it can be a sign of suspicion, sometimes cheap is expensive.

Good luck, you'll tell how it goes.

Well it’s from MPB.eu and comes with warranty and have bought and sold from them without issue on several occasions so no concerns. 

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My answer is yes.
The TL2 is an excellent camera that makes great pictures and will be still in many years. (see the X2)

Keep in mind that it is used almost like a smartphone and that it has no viewfinder.
The visioflex breaks the concept of the camera and that is why I prefer the CL.

Personally I like the TL2 with the TL 18mm or possibly the 23mm. 
The Zooms make the ergonomics a bit less secure.

Using M-lenses with the TL2 is still tricky without visioflex and I found that the use of Lumix lenses was not optimized. 
it misses an update of firmaware, but the TL2 was not part of the Alliance L..
I did not try the Sigma FF

Cheers

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