Leica Summicron 35mm version 2 questions

[adan]

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Yes, you can. However....

1) if one changes lenses as often as I do, "permanent" marker wears off the flanges pretty quickly - matter of days, sometimes.

2) marker worked better for my M8 and M9, but the M10 6-bit sensor is far less tolerant of the ink and/or wear.

Slightest scratch in the ink and the M10 will ID the lens as whatever was last selected in the menu. Gets to be a PITA.....

[ymc226]

11 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

That's a lot of lenses you have there ahah I did try them all and I can share my thoughts with you in case you find them useful.

V1 and V2 50 Lux --> V1 has zero distortion but glows / is less sharp wide open than the V2. V2 has slight distortion but that helps it get that dreamy look too (similar to the noctilux by the way that has way more distortion than the Lux). Design wise, the chrome version of the lux 50 is the best design ever (both V1 and early V2 share the same design). V1 is heavier and a tiny bit bigger though. All in all..hard to pick one, but I can definitely say you do not need both of them, as they are too similar (if condition is mint I can maybe buy one from you in the future ahah I kind of miss it)
V2 35 Lux --> my favorite 35mm lens. Unique glow and bokeh, from f2.8 as sharp as asph lenses. Still have one and plan to keep it forever.
V3 and V4 35 Cron --> too close to keep two. My favorite is still the V1/V2 cron, but again too close to call. The cron 35/50 is always the most reliable lens you can get, and they are so small / light and offer just a perfect balance between ease of use and rendering. If you have the lux, you can keep the cron as backup, although the cron has its benefits (0.7m & can fit filters).
50 rigid Cron --> my favorite 50mm lens. Perfect balance between being sharp and still offering a beautiful rendering. Lens body design (tied with the lux50) is also the best Leica has ever made. Focus throw and ease of use again, cron always beats the summilux, and it's just perfect. Still have one and plan to keep it forever. Only downside is 1m focus but oh well, not a big deal with the 50mm VS the 35mm in which 0.7m does make a bigger difference. 
35 Summaron 2.8 --> great lens, but if you have lux and cron pre-asph I'd have trouble finding the time / occasion to use it. I actually find it's the most 'boring' pre-asph 35mm, in a good sense that is. It produces great results from 2.8, but nothing that truly sets it apart like the lux or v1 cron. The biggest benefit is that you get great rendering from f2.8 and its much cheaper than the V1 cron, while keeping the same great built quality.
 

Thank you for your thoughts regarding these lenses. Presently I am getting know the lenses more and more. The 2 rigid Summicrons I acquired probably at least 8 years ago and never used until recently.  They came attached to either a mint M3 and a close to mint M2 and were equally pristine. At that time ASPH lenses were what I was interested in.  I took the advice of several on this forum and never sold a Leica M lens and never have.😀

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[shinobi2012]

Am 7.2.2022 um 02:54 schrieb shirubadanieru:

I used to have the V1 and sold it, it's probably the lens I most regret selling since now prices have doubled. That being said, I feel the V2 is so close and (to me) I prefer it to the V4.

All in all, my favorite 35mm is still the summilux pre-asph, and I would say that this lens from f2 onwards is fairly similar in performance to the V1/V2 summicron. Only downside is that it only focuses to 1 meter and can't take filters without the hood. Still, rendering wise it's truly a 2-in-1 lens, and it's my main 35mm both on digital and film. 

I agree.

To me the Summilux 35 Pre Asph is the "best" 2 in 1 lens.  Followed by the Summicron V2.  I never tried V1 Summicron, but I try to get one. Haha, isn't it awful, they are all beautiful. Summicron v4 is technical better, but somehow I just don't make friends with it (late German version I have). It is almost like the ASPH.

 

[shinobi2012]

Am 22.2.2022 um 06:15 schrieb shirubadanieru:

That's a lot of lenses you have there ahah I did try them all and I can share my thoughts with you in case you find them useful.

V1 and V2 50 Lux --> V1 has zero distortion but glows / is less sharp wide open than the V2. V2 has slight distortion but that helps it get that dreamy look too (similar to the noctilux by the way that has way more distortion than the Lux). Design wise, the chrome version of the lux 50 is the best design ever (both V1 and early V2 share the same design). V1 is heavier and a tiny bit bigger though. All in all..hard to pick one, but I can definitely say you do not need both of them, as they are too similar (if condition is mint I can maybe buy one from you in the future ahah I kind of miss it)
V2 35 Lux --> my favorite 35mm lens. Unique glow and bokeh, from f2.8 as sharp as asph lenses. Still have one and plan to keep it forever.
V3 and V4 35 Cron --> too close to keep two. My favorite is still the V1/V2 cron, but again too close to call. The cron 35/50 is always the most reliable lens you can get, and they are so small / light and offer just a perfect balance between ease of use and rendering. If you have the lux, you can keep the cron as backup, although the cron has its benefits (0.7m & can fit filters).
50 rigid Cron --> my favorite 50mm lens. Perfect balance between being sharp and still offering a beautiful rendering. Lens body design (tied with the lux50) is also the best Leica has ever made. Focus throw and ease of use again, cron always beats the summilux, and it's just perfect. Still have one and plan to keep it forever. Only downside is 1m focus but oh well, not a big deal with the 50mm VS the 35mm in which 0.7m does make a bigger difference. 
35 Summaron 2.8 --> great lens, but if you have lux and cron pre-asph I'd have trouble finding the time / occasion to use it. I actually find it's the most 'boring' pre-asph 35mm, in a good sense that is. It produces great results from 2.8, but nothing that truly sets it apart like the lux or v1 cron. The biggest benefit is that you get great rendering from f2.8 and its much cheaper than the V1 cron, while keeping the same great built quality.
 

Right on...I could not write it better. Thats why I sold my Summaron 35 2.8, even thought it renders beautiful, it is "boring", you don't get surprised.

 

Off Topic:  What about adding a Noctilux 50 1.0  to my Summilux 50 v2 (1972) ?

[shinobi2012]

Am 22.2.2022 um 01:33 schrieb ymc226:

Thank you,

I agree that the 35 perspective is very different from the 21 and even the 28.  The 28 was my favorite for a while but the 35 is growing on me since I got the V4 35 Cron.  The photos wide open seem much preferred to my eye aesthetically.  

I am liking the vintage character only now.  Now have the V1 and V2 50 Lux, V2 35 Lux, V3 and V4 35 Cron, 50 rigid Cron, 35 Summaron 2.8 and V4 25 Elmarit to try out.  I also got the 1.2 50 Noc and 28 Summaron 5.6 re-issues so will use them all with my digital M's.  No more film as I moved to California and with the water shortage, cannot see myself developing film anymore.  Donated all my darkroom equipment to my son's high school which had a photography course that taught both analog and digital.  Had a wonderful time developing film and paper with enlargers but the amount of water used to wash both were tremendous.  No problem when I lived in New Jersey however since there was no water supply issue there.

I always back track so will not get rid of any of my ASPH lenses as sharp and clinical may be something I go back to eventually.

I have to add, the only ASPH lens I like is Summicron 28 ASPH v1...it is wonderful...not a typical ASPH lens in my humble Opinion.

 

[shinobi2012]

Am 21.2.2022 um 17:23 schrieb a.noctilux:

@ymc226

I wonder how many in percent of your pictures on M taken under 1m ?

Strange this excuse of 1m mfd for using pre-asph. Summilux-M 35mm.

this 1m mfd and lack of filter thread never bother me ...

 

I did a big blunder selling my pre-asph. titan Lux 35 when I purchased the asph. titan Lux 35.

All is good now I have the plain black anodized pre-asph Summilux 35 and plain black 35 asph. Lux...

...if not seen, yet, have a look here 😉

I agree...actually Lux Pre Asph is 0.9m. it can look strange anyway if you get closer 😉 

[a.noctilux]

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13 minutes ago, shinobi2012 said:

Right on...I could not write it better. Thats why I sold my Summaron 35 2.8, even thought it renders beautiful, it is "boring", you don't get surprised.

 

Off Topic:  What about adding a Noctilux 50 1.0  to my Summilux 50 v2 (1972) ?

One more lens never hurt 😉 and you will see that they are very different (for different use mostly).

I keep my Summaron 2.8/35 and 3.5/3.5cm again different use, they are again very different from Summicron "I"  to "IV" that I happen to use also.

 

 

13 minutes ago, shinobi2012 said:

I have to add, the only ASPH lens I like is Summicron 28 ASPH v1...it is wonderful...not a typical ASPH lens in my humble Opinion.

 

I know now why I use this not typical 2/28 asph. 😇

Recently, I added another asph. after selling the pre-asph for many years, Apo-Summicron-M 2/90.

...

13 minutes ago, shinobi2012 said:

I agree...actually Lux Pre Asph is 0.9m. it can look strange anyway if you get closer 😉 

mine RF focus to about 95cm or a bit less than 3 feet, before 1m, no engraving in cm/m, but the mfd is in front of "3" feet.

[shirubadanieru]

17 hours ago, shinobi2012 said:

Off Topic:  What about adding a Noctilux 50 1.0  to my Summilux 50 v2 (1972) ?

I did own the f1 at one point but to be honest the noctilux lenses are just too heavy for me, and a pain to focus (the focus throw is way too long, suitable for still photography and portraits but not so much for everyday photography). I’d stick with the summilux everyday.

[shinobi2012]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb shirubadanieru:

I did own the f1 at one point but to be honest the noctilux lenses are just too heavy for me, and a pain to focus (the focus throw is way too long, suitable for still photography and portraits but not so much for everyday photography). I’d stick with the summilux everyday.

Yes...tats my thought...I love my Summilux 50 Pre Asph v2

[shinobi2012]

vor 22 Stunden schrieb a.noctilux:

One more lens never hurt 😉 and you will see that they are very different (for different use mostly).

I keep my Summaron 2.8/35 and 3.5/3.5cm again different use, they are again very different from Summicron "I"  to "IV" that I happen to use also.

 

 

I know now why I use this not typical 2/28 asph. 😇

Yes, I just can't sell my Summaron...somehow it is magic in Black and white film...and I have a very very good copy....I need to get a Summicron V1 I guess.

 

Yes, Summicron 28 ASPH is very special, I am very surprised. Wonderful on film, really pleasing rendering.

[adan]

Update: Totally by accident I ran across a v.2 35mm Summicron a few days ago, and bought it. Cheap-ish and super-compact, and I wanted to have a Leica 35 in addition to my 35mm f/1.4 Nokton II (which I usually don't shoot above f/2.0 anyway). No pix of my own worth posting yet - some waiting on an SD card until I add some more tomorrow.

In the meantime, we can look at this documentary work in a mental hospital, by Mary Ellen Mark.

Shot in 1975-76 during and after the filming of One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, so probably with the v.2 (but could be v.1 or v.3 - serious reportage artists don't bother to chase every new lens and extra lpmm ). If it was good enough for her, it's probaby good enough for anybody.

Powerful stuff that was part of my formative growth as a photographer.

https://www.maryellenmark.com/books/ward-81

Edited March 18, 2022 by adan

[Guest]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:31 AM, ymc226 said:

 

 

Thank you all very much for all of your responses.  When I first started with Leica lenses, I choose only ASPH versions and appreciated the overall sharpness and micro contrast in comparison to Nikon AIS, D and S lenses which I came from.  However, in the last few years, I'm almost running the other way, much preferring the lower contrast and softer rendering, especially wide open of the pre-ASPH lenses.  My main subjects are family environmental portraits or street photography, not landscapes so I don't want or need sharpness across the field.  After trying a made in Germany V4 recently and much preferring it to the ASPH V1 and APO, I tried a V3 which was also preferable to the ASPH lenses.  That is why I also want to try a V2 but it may be too close to the V3.  

How do you like/compare 35mm Summicron V3 vs V4? 

[lebanese blonde]

I've had the v2, sold it, regretted it and bought a v3 to compensate the loss.

The images i got from v2 and v3 looked pretty different - v2 was way cooler and had a lot more vignetting and glow wide open. I think what you have to consider is, that these lenses are 50 years old. Every single lens has seen some different kind of use and care. It wouldn't be a surprise if two lenses from the same version and same year looked differently due to dust, fog and things like that in my opinion.

I sold the v3 after i got a very good v4 deal because v4 is the lens i wanted for a very long time. Handling is much better on the v4 in my opinion because it has a shorter focus throw. Close focus distance is kind of akward to use with the v3 because with focus at 0.7m you've got the focus tab almost at 2 o'clock. v4 has the "usual" leica focus throw - 0.7m at 4 o'clock.

Image rendering is also quite different in my opinion. v4 looks quite modern with a nice classic bokeh. 

v2 & v3 have a very strong character (vignetting, sharp in the center but not that sharp on the edges, glow wide open in certain lighting situations, blurry corners), v5 has a very perfect rendering - v4 sits perfectly between these two.

I had to shoot my brothers wedding last year and i didn't dare to do this with the v3 - but i would have had no problem doing this with the v4.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, lebanese blonde said:

I've had the v2, sold it, regretted it and bought a v3 to compensate the loss.

The images i got from v2 and v3 looked pretty different - v2 was way cooler and had a lot more vignetting and glow wide open. I think what you have to consider is, that these lenses are 50 years old. Every single lens has seen some different kind of use and care. It wouldn't be a surprise if two lenses from the same version and same year looked differently due to dust, fog and things like that in my opinion.

I sold the v3 after i got a very good v4 deal because v4 is the lens i wanted for a very long time. Handling is much better on the v4 in my opinion because it has a shorter focus throw. Close focus distance is kind of akward to use with the v3 because with focus at 0.7m you've got the focus tab almost at 2 o'clock. v4 has the "usual" leica focus throw - 0.7m at 4 o'clock.

Image rendering is also quite different in my opinion. v4 looks quite modern with a nice classic bokeh. 

v2 & v3 have a very strong character (vignetting, sharp in the center but not that sharp on the edges, glow wide open in certain lighting situations, blurry corners), v5 has a very perfect rendering - v4 sits perfectly between these two.

I had to shoot my brothers wedding last year and i didn't dare to do this with the v3 - but i would have had no problem doing this with the v4.

Thanks. I only shoot personal photography, documenting my life and people close to me - i.e. environmental people photography and reportage. Only shoot digital M (M10R BP and M10Mono).

So, not looking for razor sharp, perfectly clean images, but creating timeless memories.

So, maybe a shame to let V3 go, and risking that V4 is too modern? Or perhaps V4 will be the perfect option for my colour images still lending a classic look? 
 

Background: Sold my 35mm Summicron ASPH v1, as I found it too perfect, clean, sharp on digital for my style.

Any advice would be great,

Mads

Edited January 12, 2023 by mcpallesen

[TomB_tx]

I used the v2 35 Summicron for about 40 years as my only M 35. Loved the tiny size (in general) and lack of optical distortion. This was the version with the tiny tab (called big tooth in some areas) for setting aperture, as there wasn't room in the short length for a normal control. Also, with the hood mounted it was hard to work the aperture tab so close to the clip-on hood base. The more normal controls on the v3 & later were a good trade-off for the larger size. Too bad they didn't use the tabbed ears from the 35 Summilux for the v2 Summicron, but these were the cost-cutting years for Leitz.

The v2 does vignet wide open, and isn't exceptionally sharp at f2, but I found both effects pleasing.

Decades later, when I had an M9, I added a Nokton 35 1.4 v1 to try against the Summicron. I found my Nokton sharpness and vignetting at 1.4 were about like my Summicron at f2. By f2 that Nokton performed better than my old Summicron at f2, except for the considerable distortion of the Nokton. Beyond f2 the Nokton v1 focus shift was problematic. 

These days I use a 35 Summarit 2.5 mostly on my M10, and on film (and M9) usually a 35 Nokton 1.4 ver 2, which cures the problems of the v1 Nokton (except for distortion).

[lebanese blonde]

vor 38 Minuten schrieb mcpallesen:

 

So, maybe a shame to let V3 go, and risking that V4 is too modern? Or perhaps V4 will be the perfect option for my colour images still lending a classic look? 

I don‘t think that v4 is too modern. In my opinion it is the best of both worlds. 

It‘s clearly not as perfect and „micro contrasty“ as most of the Peter Karbe lenses.
There will be a lot of images where you can‘t tell a difference between v3 ans v4  but there will be some situations where you can see a difference.

In terms of bokeh there is not a huge difference both versions have a nice rendering of out of focus highlights.

Here is a nice comparison:

https://www.streetsilhouettes.com/home/2017/3/30/leica-35mm-lenses-5-summicron-versions?rq=Summicron