Official Leica SL2/SL2-S L-Log LUT (Where is it?)

[hotshew]

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Does anybody know if Leica makes L-Log conversion LUTs (to 709, etc) available for download? Leica has published an L-Log Reference Manual to their SL2 downloads page -- something I'll hope to never need -- but I cannot find L-Log LUTs (from Leica) anywhere. I realize can use other (non-Leica) LUTs but wanting to know if I am simply not finding an official set on Leica's support pages or they simply do not exist -- which would be odd given the emphasis of video on SL2-S.  I have the SL2, and assume shares same Log profile as with SL2-S so should be able to use same LUTs.

Thanks,

-Roland. 

[frame-it]

 

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Edited February 2, 2022 by frame-it

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[hotshew]

I'm talking about conversion LUT that can downloaded and applied in Resolve/FCP-X, **not** why does my monitor look flat when I enable L-Log, which obviously needs conversion LUT applied to output signal to look "normal" to human eyes. It's great that Leica provides several LUTs in-camera to apply plus option for custom, but, again, where can they be downloaded similar to how other manufacturers make them available for their cameras (C-Log, V-Log, S-Log, N-Log, etc.).

If want to impress with your search skills, how about sending a link to the Leica downloads page containing the L-Log LUT packages instead?

[Slender]

lol

 

it used to be on this page, they were called Leica LUT in 4 flavours: Natural or Classic, L-Log to 709 or to 2020PQ/HDR.

https://leica-camera.com/en-GB/photography/cameras/sl/sl2-s-black/downloads

Sadly can't find them right now... if not elsewhere on Leica website I will send them here on a we transfer link.

[frame-it]

27 minutes ago, hotshew said:

If want to impress with your search skills, how about sending a link to the Leica downloads page containing the L-Log LUT packages instead?

i would have if Leica hadn't "updated" their page and made it into a Disaster zone

 

[hotshew]

7 minutes ago, Slender said:

lol

 

it used to be on this page, they were called Leica LUT in 4 flavours: Natural or Classic, L-Log to 709 or to 2020PQ/HDR.

https://leica-camera.com/en-GB/photography/cameras/sl/sl2-s-black/downloads

Sadly can't find them right now... if not elsewhere on Leica website I will send them here on a we transfer link.

Thank you. This is helpful :- ) I've also seen several references to Leica L-Log LUTs being available on their downloads page but, nothing, just as you point out. If you've got a link, that would be great.

[Slender]

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Later tonight, when I come home, I will upload them.

[hotshew]

Thank you sir! That will be greatly appreciated. 

[hotshew]

@Slender, thanks again for your offer to post LUTs! Super appreciated. To be sure Leica is aware of the issue I contacted Leica USA, which in-turn put me in contact with their SL specialist. He was quick to respond by e-mailing me the SL2 LUT package, which includes Rec709 and Rec2020 cubes for Classic and Natural (4 total), and he confirmed no difference for SL2 vs SL2-S. He also acknowledge the issue of LUTs not being published to downloads as they should and said it will be a couple weeks before resolved. In the meantime, he is OK for me to let anybody know his contact info if needing the LUTs, so feel free to PM me if needed.

Thanks!

-Roland. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by hotshew

[Slender]

I failed to make it in time! I am still away from my personal laptop.... sorry. I will put it up here anyway just in case.

[hotshew]

Thanks again @Slender. The official LUTs, Natural in particular, deliver great results IMO. Well worth the effort to get.

[Flore]

@hotshew Hi Roland,

Thank you so much for asking these questions.

I'm working on a 30 minute short documentary and would love to use my SL2 but I'm a bit stuck.

First I don't like the look of the in-camera LUTs which seem to be baked into the footage and not a simple visual tool as you say a "conversion LUTapplied to output signal to look "normal" to human eyes" I'm certainly not wanting something altering the footage which limits the ability to grade. Or maybe I got it completely wrong...

Second, the .mov's codec isn't recognised by Resolve. I need to use a codec converter. 1) it makes the process too long. 2) I wonder if that conversion alters the footage/image data.

Third, ideally I would like to be able to shoot with a simple visual LUT that would look exactly like the image you'd get when you aren't filming in L-log, without an external monitor, and download this LUT in Premiere or/and Resolve then simply tweak it before handing it to a colour grader for final touches.

Is that possible?

I find it way too hard to shoot in log without a LUT on screen/EVF. I get grainy footage, over or under exposed. Overall quite appalling.

It's a lack of practice on my part for sure but I'm about to start shooting in very light geared ob-doc mode (no cage/Ninja but a Rode mic in the shoe) and I'm very worried to either limit my dynamic range by not filming in Log or ruining my footage by badly filming in Log.

I tried to message you to get the SL pro's email but as a newbie here I can't private-message.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge

Flore in Sydney 

[Stuart Richardson]

Resolve Studio supports the SL2 mov codec...at least as far as I am aware. I realize it is paid, but it is worth it for such a good software, as well as the addition of the other features in the Studio version, like noise reduction and so on. I am not sure on the LUT question, however, as I do not typically shoot in LOG.

[hansvons]

8 hours ago, Flore said:

It's a lack of practice on my part for sure but I'm about to start shooting in very light geared ob-doc mode (no cage/Ninja but a Rode mic in the shoe) and I'm very worried to either limit my dynamic range by not filming in Log or ruining my footage by badly filming in Log.

 

 

[hotshew]

20 hours ago, Flore said:

Second, the .mov's codec isn't recognised by Resolve. I need to use a codec converter. 1) it makes the process too long. 2) I wonder if that conversion alters the footage/image data.

No issues for me importing and working with footage in Resolve. What are your format output settings on the camera? Certainly, needing to transcode footage is a major PITA so resolve this issue first.

20 hours ago, Flore said:

Third, ideally I would like to be able to shoot with a simple visual LUT that would look exactly like the image you'd get when you aren't filming in L-log, without an external monitor, and download this LUT in Premiere or/and Resolve then simply tweak it before handing it to a colour grader for final touches.

If I understand correctly, you're saying you want to shoot in log profile (so have more latitude in post) but want a LUT that results in footage looking as if shot in standard (no Log) profile. I haven't compared w/ the SL2, but in my experience, usually one of the standard LUTs provided by the vendor gets you close. Have you tried the Classic or Natural REC709 LUTs that Leica supplies for SL2? They're baked into the camera (see next comment).

20 hours ago, Flore said:

I find it way too hard to shoot in log without a LUT on screen/EVF. I get grainy footage, over or under exposed. Overall quite appalling.

Something is wrong if what you're seeing in EVF is appalling. Have you tried setting the display LUT to apply under menu option?:

Video Settings => Video Gamma => Settings => L-Log => LUT Profile => [Classic | Natural | ...]

... or, if interpret you statement literally, "shoot in log without a LUT on screen/EVF", why do this?

20 hours ago, Flore said:

@hotshew Hi Roland,

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge

Hi to you as well :- ) and wish I could be more helpful.

Thanks,

-Roland.

Edited March 26, 2022 by hotshew

[Stuart Richardson]

If you are doing HDR video or 10 bit recording in the SL2, then you need Davinci Resolve Studio to edit the files. Otherwise they just load as audio only and with black screens. I am not good on remembering the exact encoding names or settings, but I had this problem myself when I first got the SL2, and the issue is that the free version of Resolve does not support those HDR formats. I upgraded to the Studio version because I felt like the software was worth paying for, and compared to Adobe it is a bargain (pay once for years of use, vs pay every month for the rest of your life and lose access to it all as soon as you stop paying). If you have Premiere I am sure that it can read the format as well.

Edited March 27, 2022 by Stuart Richardson

[hotshew]

Just now, Stuart Richardson said:

... the free version of Resolve does not support those HDR formats. I upgraded to the Studio version because I felt like the software was worth paying for, and compared to Adobe it is a bargain ...

Good call out. I have the paid version of Resolve.

[Flore]

Thank you so much y'all for your help!
@Stuart Richardson You're absolutely right. Resolve needs to be the paying version to work. I read previous threads on Log and LUTs and people sometimes had problems and sometimes not. Now I know that it's a free version problem. I'm going to have to pay for that one

@hansvons Thank you for the link. I spent the day reading the whole thread in details. I discovered thanks to you that the colour space for the SL2 is Rec2020. I have downloaded your Rec2020 to Rec709 LUT which I need to try too. 
I really liked your SL2-S review: 

I considered going Arri with a Mini but gosh it's expensive, heavy, and more. I think your advice to work within the camera's native colour space is very wise. I'm still unfamiliar with all of this and will have to plunge into it.

And thank you @hotshew for your replies.
You're right in saying;  "If I understand correctly, you're saying you want to shoot in log profile (so have more latitude in post) but want a LUT that results in footage looking as if shot in standard (no Log) profile." I want the log to allow me to correct stuff if needs be (in doco you sometimes shoot to not miss a moment, and deal with settings on the fly, it results in imperfect footage). As the "normal" look of the no-log Leica SL2 footage is what I like, I just want to apply a LUT to get this and correct the bad exposure if needs be.

My message wasn't clear enough. I have applied the built in Leica LUTs (that have disappeared from the SL2 page) I found here and that are in the camera. The Classic and Natural. I don't find any of them resemble the non-log footage. Maybe I'm doing something wrong... I'll be doing very precise tests tomorrow with both Natural and Classic and also other LUTs I have uploaded in camera from users of this forum. Then I'll compare it all.

By baked in LUT I mean that when I view the log footage in Premiere it seems that I can't take off the in-camera LUT. Is there a way to do it?

Again thank you for your help

 

Flore

[hansvons]

7 hours ago, Flore said:

I have downloaded your Rec2020 to Rec709 LUT which I need to try too. 

For full DR, you must use the LUT in the pipeline behind the grading nodes. In the Rec 709 colour space, that would be footage -> grading nodes -> LUT. If done otherwise, like footage -> LUT -> grading (what feels more natural), the LUT will cut down the DR dramatically - actually, from HDR down to SDR, chopping off tons of the highlights.

In a Rec 2020 HDR workflow, that would be the pipeline for Rec709 deliverables: footage -> grading in Rec2020 HDR colour space -> colour managed output to Rec709 (which resembles the Rec2020 to Rec709 LUT).

An ACES workflow looks like this: footage -> generic Rec2020 camera IDT -> grading in ACES colour space -> ODT set to Rec709

BUT A legacy Rec709 SDR workflow footage -> grading in SDR Rec709 colour space -> regular HD output will lead to reddish skin tones and cyan skies because the SL2-S colour space is NOT compatible with regular Rec709. At some point it must be converted to Rec709. For best DR that should always happen AFTER the grading process.

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[Photoworks]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:15 PM, Flore said:

@hotshew Hi Roland,

Thank you so much for asking these questions.

I'm working on a 30 minute short documentary and would love to use my SL2 but I'm a bit stuck.

First I don't like the look of the in-camera LUTs which seem to be baked into the footage and not a simple visual tool as you say a "conversion LUTapplied to output signal to look "normal" to human eyes" I'm certainly not wanting something altering the footage which limits the ability to grade. Or maybe I got it completely wrong...

Second, the .mov's codec isn't recognised by Resolve. I need to use a codec converter. 1) it makes the process too long. 2) I wonder if that conversion alters the footage/image data.

Third, ideally I would like to be able to shoot with a simple visual LUT that would look exactly like the image you'd get when you aren't filming in L-log, without an external monitor, and download this LUT in Premiere or/and Resolve then simply tweak it before handing it to a colour grader for final touches.

Is that possible?

I find it way too hard to shoot in log without a LUT on screen/EVF. I get grainy footage, over or under exposed. Overall quite appalling.

It's a lack of practice on my part for sure but I'm about to start shooting in very light geared ob-doc mode (no cage/Ninja but a Rode mic in the shoe) and I'm very worried to either limit my dynamic range by not filming in Log or ruining my footage by badly filming in Log.

I tried to message you to get the SL pro's email but as a newbie here I can't private-message.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge

Flore in Sydney 

Here are some suggestions. 
 

Consider shooting everything in L-Log and Rec2020 space and edit in Rec2020.

I mostly shoot in MOV C4K 29.97 All-I / 4:2:2 10Bit SD.  you will need SD cards that are v90, I use ProGrade 256 300MB's

Get Lots of batteries. often you get to 4K battery issues at 50% if you use adapted lenses. I use 2nd battery in grip handle or usb-c battery pack and enable charging over USB.

I have front bottom customized to show LUT and the other to show waveform monitor.
I use M focus, I prefocus with pushing in joystick ( backbitten focus ) if you are using Leica lenses you can se focus to linger and 180 degree and more.

I save all setting into a PROFILE for quick access , it is a must for me.

I have created some lots for myself in DaVinci Resolve Studio more based on colors that look more natural and exposure compensation for the bast sensor setting,
I use that to monitor in view finder and then apply in resolve as a lut before editing. this way I shoot to correct exposure in camera and very little editing is needed in posts most of the time.
I find the Leica LUT are not neutral and already have some styling.. 
Let me know if you have other questions.