Stay with SL2-S or get M11?

[tonyNZ]

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Hi readers!

I used to have an M9 and loved the image quality and rich colours.  Harder to focus but great fun.  Moving on, I now have an SL2-S which has many great qualities except that it is big and heavy.  I kept one M lens (21mm) which is good to use on the SL2-S. 

Now that the M11 is here it looks so inviting but do I get one or not? This model has many of the qualities of the SLS-S, but lacks a great viewfinder - even the new Visioflex, but has the benefit of larger (and variable size) files.

Is the SLS-2 a better camera (I haven’t used the video capture yet, probably unlikely too)?

So I thought of a compromise - keep the SLS-2 and buy M lenses - I have an eye on the Summicron 75mm and 35mm?

Should I just get the M11 or should I stay with the SLS-2 and buy the SL 75mm and be done with it?

Its an impossible choice…

[LeicaR10]

TonyNZ,   I feel your agnst.  I have been a M user for over 4+ decades along with the S and most recently the SL cameras.  All great tools and designed for specific roles and genres of photography.  Many well meaning photographers to include myself will offer advice, but it gets down to your own personal needs and wants, genre of photography and wallet.  The M11 is a superb camera as is the SL2-S.  I have a SL2-S as a backup to my M11 camera.  I only shoot M lenses on the SL2-S when I do reach for it.  I really don't think my two cents will help you make your own decision.  Only you can make that decision.  Personally, when I see a new camera appear on the scene and I get a case of incurable GAS, I force myself to ask this question.  What is the new camera or lens going to do that I cannot do already with the tools at hand?  If the answer has more pros than cons to it, I either trade or buy the camera or lens.  I have been to GAS rehab several times, there is no cure.  I can only suggest you consider asking yourself the same question and decide if that tool will also help you create better masterpiece photographs that will make viewers;  Stop, Look, Think and if possible Feel somthing about that moment in time.  Everyone is different, your needs and wants will deliver the right outcome for you.  r/ Mark

Edited January 28, 2022 by LeicaR10

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[hansvons]

The M11 is 8,5K, the Sl2-S half the price. From a rational point of view, if you don't need the much higher resolution of the M11, there's no reason for upgrading (in terms of the price tag). But suppose you, like me, need a workhorse that can do all the wonders of today's cameras like (exceptional) video and AF for reportages and video productions. In that case, despite the lower price tag, the SL-S is a much more versatile and better camera in terms of usability, working speed, and usable results.

But, if the photographic experience is your driving force and inspiration, and results and versatility don't play the defining role, you should swap cameras as soon as possible because the M11 is very likely the much more inspiring camera. 

I use the SL2-S mainly for work. It partially pays my rent, and it's all I need. I use the 24-90 on the SL2-S when a fast working pace is required. I can say only good things about that lens. But I also have a couple of vintage R-lenses when I want a more Leica-esk flatter look. With the R lenses, a couple of batteries and SD cards, that's a 12K package that will last for the next 5 years or even longer.

However, I absolutely understand that the M11 is an offering hard to be ignored. Such a package would include a 50mm lens that ideally supports the 60Mp sensor meaningfully but still leaves room for some character if I got one. That'd be the 50mm Summilux, which adds another 5k. Overall, that M Package with a 2nd battery is roughly a 14k investment. Quite a steep price and only justifiable if you are a) a hobbyist with deep pockets and a crush for Leica stuff (then you can buy anything, a Porsche and whatnot), b) you are a well-off professional who wants a great inspiring camera for personal use, or c) you are a retired pro who sells off all the gear and finally ends up with a single Leica.

For perspective: Peter Lindbergh shot most of his world-famous stuff on regular Nikon gear throughout his life and ended up with a D5. He knew that opportunity outsmarts technology. I'm sure I'll ditch the temptation and will invest the 14K in travels and other stuff that actually elevates my photography. Gear is very rarely the limiting factor. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by hansvons

[M11 for me]

You are certainly aware that with the M11 and a 28mm atrached and shooting M-Raw the you factually have >30 MPix images. Then you can crop 1,3x which gives you as well >30 MPix (camera changes automatically to L-Raw) with angle of view of a 35mm lens. You can then crop 1.8x which gives you a picture of almost 20MPix and an angle of view of a 50mm lens. So 3 in one. Including a beautiful camera, light and extraordinary quality incl. image quality. And finally if needed you can create images at a resolution of 60 MPix (L-Raw without crop).

As I can read from your post you like the manual experience. I personally never was interested in the SL because of wheight and big size, hanging heavy on my shoulders. No thanks 😃

[tom0511]

Do you want AF or rangefinder focusing?

Are you fine with primes or do you want the flexibility to also use zooms?

do you occasionally also would like to shoot movie?

do you need longer focal length than 90 max 135mm?

do you want is/ibis?
 

if I could keep either M or SL I would keep SL, much more flexible system, specially if you have kids and a dog !)

for many occassions I still like the M a lot, smaller, simplicity, optical viewfinder, best with28/35/50mm.
 

younhave used both M and SL.

the M11 is much newer than M9, but the overall handling is still the same.

 

 

[jrp]

In the end, it boils down to testing out a few systems and then sticking with the one that best meets your needs.  There will always be a bit of leapfrogging but, unless Leica choose to abandon the SL line, as they have the S line (for obvious technoeconomic reasons), get the most out of the line that you choose (in terms of pictures but also by adding to your lens and accessory collection).

Occasionally, you will be wrong-footed, when an alternative system offers a leap that your current system won't enjoy for an indeterminate amount of time that is central to your usage requirements (eg, you have young children and want them to be in focus, then the most recent Sony/Canon/Nikon cameras will have an advantage over the M or SL system; or you find a way of selling landscape prints, in which case a 100Mpx Fuji GFX system may be worth the cost; or you get old and rich, I which case a lightweight M system may meet your needs best)

[threeseed]

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I ended up keeping the SL2-S and buying a Sigma FP-L new for $1500 USD.

Same sensor as the M11, works great with M lenses and all of it's faults (lack of EVF, electronic shutter) are not an issue since I just use it as a companion point/shoot.

[SrMi]

20 hours ago, threeseed said:

I ended up keeping the SL2-S and buying a Sigma FP-L new for $1500 USD.

Same sensor as the M11, works great with M lenses and all of it's faults (lack of EVF, electronic shutter) are not an issue since I just use it as a companion point/shoot.

Congrats on Sigma, a fine camera. While it likely has the same sensor silicone, the M11 sensor toppings are very different. The sensor toppings and the firmware are a major component of image character.

[Flou]

Buying the SL 75mm is a good idea…the best lens I ever used. I also had to decide if I should go back to the M-System or stay with the SL. I kept the SL and bought the SL 35mm to complement my 75mm lens and I am very happy. 

[tonyNZ]

Thanks for the interesting and thoughtful responses.

I think that at this stage I should stay with the SL2 and get a 75mm or 50mm M lens.  Try that out for a while and if I am still unhappy consider buying the M11.

[LikameLeica]

I have found myself with the same but slightly different question.  I have been an SL user from the first SL through to now owning an SL2 and SL2-S.  I have never owned a digital M, but have an M6 I inherited and tried out a bit, but just really like the ease and benefits of digital.  The lure of the digital M is always in my mind and the release of the M11 makes it very tempting.  So now to my thoughts for you.  I would think about buying some M glass for your SL2-S and see if that keeps you happy.  I really enjoy the experience of using M glass on the SL system and the benefits of the EVF and IBIS.  One of my favorite lenses on the SL is the native 35 SL for image quality and look and feel, however I enjoy using the M 35 summilux much more and the image quality is also very very good. The weight is much more manageable using the SL2-S or SL2 with M glass.  Then if after some time you then decide that you want to try out the M11 or whatever M body exists at a point in the future, you will have more than just the (21 mm) M lens to use on the camera.  You will hopefully have enjoyed the use on the SL2-S along the way with the additional M lenses and keep both the SL2-S and the M11 for the different user experience they both bring.

 

[OR120]

LikameLeica- could not agree more. Love my M glass on my SL2-S. Also love my R glass on SL2-S. I have many old Nikkor lenses, Voiigtlander along with some Zeiss. The SL2-S plays well with every lens I have. When I traded in my ME-240 on a new SL2-S at my local Leica shop - it was like an awakening. Everything was easy, bright, clear and a joy to use. I no longer needed a EVF attached to the top of my M to use my fast lenses (needed for my eyes) - I think that was the biggest problem with digital M bodies. I've had a love of M bodies going back many years. Just a simple body and a simple, small M lens. Once the need for external attachment - the EVF - was necessary for my fast lens focus accuracy with my eyes - that little M body was no longer so small. It just didn't feel the same or handle the same. I love the SL2-S - FOR ME - it just works right and feels right in my hands. I've taken my SL2-S with a couple of M lenses on several trips now. It is such a pleasure to use. I could take it out all day - no problem. I'm now at the point of looking for a second body. Thinking about an old Leica SL body OR getting a new Panasonic DC-S5. The thought of the used SL body (same battery, charger, cheaper than another SL2-S) is nice BUT would the Panasonic DC-S5 be a better choice. If anyone has some advice on a good second body I would be grateful.

[threeseed]

14 hours ago, OR120 said:

If anyone has some advice on a good second body I would be grateful.

I went with the Sigma FP-L which I think is a bargain but if I could do it again I would seriously consider the Ricoh GR111x.

The best camera is always the one you have with you.

[hansvons]

15 hours ago, OR120 said:

If anyone has some advice on a good second body I would be grateful.

A second boy is necessary if you are on an event or press assignment. Usually, one body carries a 24-70, the other a 70-200. Other than that, I can only see a second body on a remote trip for backup if the first body dies. I have no experience in event assignments; I'm not a photo reporter or wedding photographer. But I have some knowledge of reportage and similar jobs in remote areas. A second body is either the same camera again (backup), or very different with new capabilities. That's why I think that @threeseed has a valid point suggesting the Rico GR because it's the best solution in the market in terms of pocketability and IQ.

The Lumix S5 is roughly the Panasonic equivalent to the SL2-S. It has a less streamlined user experience, plus the EVF is on a visibly lower level (and it's not weather resistant etc...). Colour-wise I prefer Leica by a large margin (especially the video quality). That's why I haven't bought a Rico yet and am waiting for a CL2 (which isn't as pocketable, but I have a Fuji XE3 of similar size, which is somewhat pocketable depending on the lens).

[OR120]

Thank you all for your informative responses. I need a second body to use with my Leica M/R lenses. Don't really want to spend SL2-S money (again) if I don't have to. So trying to decide the best bang for the buck - Older/used SL vs new Panasonic DC-S5.

Edited February 1, 2022 by OR120
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[Simone_DF]

Another vote for the mighty little Ricoh. 

I recently got a GRIII and it's permanently in my pocket, set to F8 and Snap Focus (Ricoh's equivalent of zone focusing). Can't beat that for portability and speed.

[tom0511]

I have read elsewhere that Leica lenses (including SL lenses) do render sharper on SL bodies compared to Pana bodies. One guy compared S1r with Leica lens, and the other way around.

Also a used SL would offer you comparable menue/user interface. Noting against Pana, but if you have one Leica SL bodie allready, I would rather stay with Leica for second body as well.

[Photoworks]

the M11 is a great camera but still slow to use in many situations. Visoflex is still not as natural like on SL2 camera and 1/2 the resolution too.

It is a good question. I find the 75mm SL amazing for portrait and detail..

for most other situation I use my M lenses on the SL2. 35 lux, and 50 Lux. the Summicron SL lenses are big and heavy. Unless I am planing on it the 35mm and 50mm SL lenses stay home. I do use the zoom lenses on SL most of the time.. 24-90mm and 20-60mm from Panasonic.

In my test the Panasonic 20-60mm at 20 is comparable in image quality to the M21mm 3.4 lens. a great alternative.

I would suggest to think about what you like to use more and what you like to take Pictures of. there are no zoom on M cameras. The M cameras with one or 2 lenses is small and attractive . SL Lenses are better quality, if you are interested more in that.

[BernardC]

5 hours ago, OR120 said:

So trying to decide the best bang for the buck - Older/used SL vs new Panasonic DC-S5.

A used SL has the same DNG workflow as the SL2 and SL2-S, and uses the same batteries. The S5 has better AF, which is irrelevant with M and R lenses, and higher ISO. You'll have to determine if the ISO is important to you, the SL is already pretty good.

Given your use-case, I would go with an SL. The S5 doesn't bring anything new to the table for you, since you already have an SL2-S. It wouldn't be worthwhile to learn a new UI, buy new batteries, etc., for a backup camera.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica L-Mount

[Boojay]

Sounds to me like you would like something a little less big and heavy... why not stick with L mount, the CL is a great vehicle for your M lens and any L glass you already have, with the crop factor offering something a little different.

 

 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Boojay